Is there a right to health care?

deanhills · Feb 8, 2010

myp said:
Important to remember that this in a health care market that is heavily infiltrated by special interests through the government. A look at the general trends (public vs. private funding, public vs. private hospitals, government regulations, etc.) shows that as government has gotten more involved in the market, conditions have worsened.

How would that differ from the NHS in the UK, as the UK Government is even more involved in the market than in the United States? I thought that the US Government in comparison with many other Governments in the world, is the least involved. Precisely why it is trying to get this health care reform bill through for example.

Dirk · Feb 8, 2010

deanhills said:
How would that differ from the NHS in the UK, as the UK Government is even more involved in the market than in the United States? I thought that the US Government in comparison with many other Governments in the world, is the least involved. Precisely why it is trying to get this health care reform bill through for example.

Actually, what's interesting about the UK and the NHS is that it distorts the market the least. (Out of modern industrial Western liberal democracies).

The reason for this is that the state system is almost completely seperate from the private system. Asides from negotiating drug prices.

The state system will treat everyone free at the point of use (the service is paid through taxes) and will provide (in almost every instance, but hey, nothing's perfect) quality treatment for anything. Throughout the Labour Government, much as i dislike them, waiting times have been considerably reduced and a huge amount of attention is placed on treating cancer.

Social programs sometimes go through the NHS, for example, you can go to a doctor and get free condoms - they're often provided free in the bathrooms as well.

In fact, where things become blurred is that there has been intervention in the state system! Certain parts were privatised during the last Conservative and this Labour Government. There has been more involvement of profit-seeking businesses and in England&Wales, you are charged for prescriptions if over 18 and not on benefits.

The vast majority of UK residents dislike and regret these intrusions.

The private health insurance system operates completely seperately and freely from this. It is a free market system.

Dirk · Feb 8, 2010

The US government is highly involved in its healthcare system, and has been for some time.

It's for this reason that funding an NHS in the US has been calculated to be a lot cheaper than the current system.

deanhills · Feb 8, 2010

Dirk said:
The US government is highly involved in its healthcare system, and has been for some time.

How could that be when most of the primary health care is in the hands of private corporations?

David · Feb 8, 2010

deanhills said:
How could that be when most of the primary health care is in the hands of private corporations?

Because the same corporations own the politicians or vise versa.

deanhills · Feb 8, 2010

David said:
Because the same corporations own the politicians or vise versa.

Well by that definition even more so. Health care industry is owned lock stock and barrel by corporations and not the Government.

David · Feb 8, 2010

deanhills said:
Well by that definition even more so. Health care industry is owned lock stock and barrel by corporations and not the Government.

Politicians own the Corporations as well. The Bushes are Big Oil for example.

dave · Feb 8, 2010

deanhills said:
How could that be when most of the primary health care is in the hands of private corporations?

Because the government (state and federal) strongly regulates health care providers and health insurance companies.

About 15 years ago, at work we were developed a medical diagnostic tool. The company was not a in the medical business but we were applying technology developed for the defense industry to a medical industry problem. We did the basic work, had a prototype, and then looked at the process of getting it approved. If you think the defense industry or aeospace is full of oversight, the medical field is 10 times worse, not to mention the liability. We dropped the entire venture.

dave · Feb 8, 2010

David said:
Because the same corporations own the politicians or vise versa.

Everything always seems to come down to those evil corporations. What is a corporation? Do people really think about what a corporation is, or is it just some convenient mythical source of all that they don't like in the world?

David · Feb 8, 2010

dave said:
Everything always seems to come down to those evil corporations. What is a corporation? Do people really think about what a corporation is, or is it just some convenient mythical source of all that they don't like in the world?

I'm a socialist. A corporation is a total violation of my beliefs.

deanhills · Feb 8, 2010

dave said:
Because the government (state and federal) strongly regulates health care providers and health insurance companies.

I guess that needs to be added then to the long list of heath care reforms that are needed? Too much regulation that does not really make sense all that much?

Dirk · Feb 9, 2010

deanhills said:
How could that be when most of the primary health care is in the hands of private corporations?

Trust me, all that state spending on healthcare (some of the proportionally highest in the Western world) doesn't go into Medicare/Medicaid.

:giggle:

deanhills · Feb 9, 2010

Dirk said:
Trust me, all that state spending on healthcare (some of the proportionally highest in the Western world) doesn't go into Medicare/Medicaid.

:giggle:

Definitely agreed. Most of it in all probability vanish into bureacracy.

chuck schmidt · Feb 25, 2010

GOP said:
No but if all doctors are under a public health system they are financed by the same means through and through, and yes then doctors will be robots who are slaves to the public regulations.

That doesn't seem to be the case where they have public health care, such as canada. Its the same as non-public health care except the bill doesn't go to the patient.

I keep seeing argument about people not getting health care if they are not paying for it. Somewhere in here we ignore the fact that health isn't necessarily something you earn or for which you can be blamed. Why should the CEO of an unhealthy industrial operation keep his workers low paid and unhealthy, and sit in a clean office being one of the few who can afford health care? Why should sick people be denied the benefits of the society that they have spent their life working to create? The greenback may be one way to measure and distribute the benefits of society, but it should not be the only one.

We do not live in a hunter gatherer society where we can shoot what we eat and be totally independent. Amongst other things laws make us educate our children to we live in or near town. Our children mingle with others and bring home germs every year. We live in groups to create a better society and doing so creates health problems. Those who benefit the most and suffer the least are those whose wealth and privilege are greatest. There is nothing wrong with the rest voting themselves health care.

On a spiritual level the Bible tells us to share with our fellow man. If we can't even share good health, God help us.

Dirk · Feb 26, 2010

deanhills said:
Definitely agreed. Most of it in all probability vanish into bureacracy.

Pretty much.

chuck schmidt said:
That doesn't seem to be the case where they have public health care, such as canada. Its the same as non-public health care except the bill doesn't go to the patient.

Yep, and one more point. Having a publc healthcare system doesn't necessarily mean the private system disappears. In cases like the UK, the NHS is so good, the private system sees comparatively little use. But it still exists.

Somewhere in here we ignore the fact that health isn't necessarily something you earn or for which you can be blamed.

^^^
This!

Why should the CEO of an unhealthy industrial operation keep his workers low paid and unhealthy, and sit in a clean office being one of the few who can afford health care?

Because the workers are of lower class and should know their place, by their rationale.

Why should sick people be denied the benefits of the society that they have spent their life working to create?

Absolutely.

Those who benefit the most and suffer the least are those whose wealth and privilege are greatest.

If i agreed any more, i might hurt myself. Yes, exactly, we need to find a way in which the poor - the most requiring it - are afforded good health.

el canadiano · May 4, 2010

If anything, health care should be a right. Every citizen in this world should have access to a doctor at least for a checkup. At least then, stuff like Cancer detection could be determined early.

If anything, smoking, fast food, drinking, and recreational drugs should be Privileges. We could then maybe even lower the actual need for healthcare.

Calvin · May 6, 2010

deanhills said:
Definitely agreed. Most of it in all probability vanish into bureacracy.

Wrong, only some of it goes into that black hole. The real crooks are the doctors and pharmaceutical companies. My personal view is that most medicines should be available without a prescription. Once that happens, the usefulness of the general practitioner MD will suddenly diminish substantially.

I see no valid reason why the medical profession should be subsidized through tax payer dollars. If I am sick, and I want to see a doctor, I should pay for it myself, not depend on the taxpayer to contribute.

If I want to sell my house, I go to a lawyer, and pay for the lawyer myself.

What's the difference? Seriously?

David · May 8, 2010

Calvin said:
If I want to sell my house, I go to a lawyer, and pay for the lawyer myself.

Really? I go to a relater.

prasanth5 · May 11, 2010

Man has to live and achieve and to achieve this he has to keep his health in tact and hence I feel that there is nothing wrong in pressing for the right to health care.

lorcan · May 14, 2010

Has people above me have said, people need their health care, without you will die, I am actually really fond of the British system the NHS, I think that it is a just a remarkable system, much better than the Irish system and American system. I think that the American system will be a bit better with Obama in charge.

Is there a right to health care?

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