Israel questioned upon flotilla assault

myp · May 31, 2010

Israeli commandos boarded a ship and killed at least nine Palestinian activists earlier today, sparking what some are calling a diplomatic crisis. The move has left Israel's enemies and even some of its allies questioning the country and the peace talks are bound to be hurt by this. Among the nations most upset is Turkey, one of the Muslim nations that has been friendlier with Israel. The United Nations Security Council is considering condemning Israel's action.

source: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...7632709673018.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

Thoughts?

Dirk · Jun 1, 2010

Excuse me, could I please point something out? The flotilla was entering a blockaded zone and refused to be boarded. Then they resisted the IDF navy soldiers boarding, and attacked them.

It is always sad when there is loss of life, but this is what happens when you attack fully trained soldiers - people get hurt. It was entirely justified for IDF soldiers to defend themselves.

I hope that the UN, and members of this forum, fully analyse the facts, before making assumptions and ideologically charged accusations. I'd really appreciate that, thanks.

On a side note, although Israel does allow humanitarian aid into Gaza, I still think the blockade is wrong. But that has nothing to do with this specific incident.

myp · Jun 1, 2010

Dirk said:
Excuse me, could I please point something out? The flotilla was entering a blockaded zone and refused to be boarded. Then they resisted the IDF navy soldiers boarding, and attacked them.

Thanks for clearing that up Dirk- I read that after I had posted the thread and realized that some of the earlier reports might have been misleading.

Dirk · Jun 1, 2010

myp said:
Thanks for clearing that up Dirk- I read that after I had posted the thread and realized that some of the earlier reports might have been misleading.

I think a lot of the news coverage is quite biased, to be honest.

The IDF have published a video taken from the helicopter, and it clearly shows the soldiers being attacked with live fire, a stun grenade, metal pipes, and a firebomb, among other things. One soldier was literally thrown down one deck.

What's more, i'll say that it was a pre-planned attack.

After the passengers left the ship, the IDF searched the vessel and found a number of weapons, including knives, slingshots, bats, pipes, and makeshift explosives.

The soldiers did not expect to be attacked and were justified in defending themselves.

Calvin · Jun 2, 2010

Dirk said:
Excuse me, could I please point something out? The flotilla was entering a blockaded zone and refused to be boarded.

I really don't give a ****.

Let Israel and Palestine sort their own shit out. I don't understand why this sort of crap needs to be headline news.

If there was a news story about Barack Obama farting at an inopportune time, and this Israel Flotilla shit, I would find the Obama fart story to be much more interesting.

Dirk · Jun 2, 2010

Calvin said:
I really don't give a ****.

Let Israel and Palestine sort their own shit out. I don't understand why this sort of crap needs to be headline news.

If there was a news story about Barack Obama farting at an inopportune time, and this Israel Flotilla shit, I would find the Obama fart story to be much more interesting.

That is not only cold, but i find that utterly disrespectful to the 9 human beings that died, and the three IDF soldiers - human beings, too, whatever Hamas will have you believe - badly injured by the premeditated assault on Israeli Defence Force troops, including gun shot wounds. One poor soldier was shot in the stomach.

If you find Barack Obama's bowel movements to be more interesting than this, I can assure you that i find you and your opinion frankly distasteful.

myp · Jun 2, 2010

Calvin said:
I really don't give a ****.

Let Israel and Palestine sort their own shit out. I don't understand why this sort of crap needs to be headline news.

If there was a news story about Barack Obama farting at an inopportune time, and this Israel Flotilla shit, I would find the Obama fart story to be much more interesting.

I am all for non-interventionism when it comes to a nation's foreign policy, but that does not mean we should blind ourselves from what is happening around the world. Remaining ignorant to what is happening outside of our lives is only bound to hurt us in the long run.

Calvin · Jun 2, 2010

Dirk said:
That is not only cold, but i find that utterly disrespectful to the 9 human beings that died, and the three IDF soldiers - human beings, too, whatever Hamas will have you believe - badly injured by the premeditated assault on Israeli Defence Force troops, including gun shot wounds. One poor soldier was shot in the stomach.

If you find Barack Obama's bowel movements to be more interesting than this, I can assure you that i find you and your opinion frankly distasteful.

Human beings killing other human beings is news to you? Guess what, its been happening since Cain killed Able, and every generation and century since. I have been so completely and utterly desensitized to the Middle East Isreali-Palestine conflict that soldiers dying on either side:

1. Does not surprise me;
2. Does not interest me; and
3. Does not affect my life in any way, apart from midly annoying me and getting me to turn the channel on the tv.

I am sure the mothers of the 9 dead would be very sad. But its a very old conflict, dragging on longer than WW1 and WWII. I simply seek some rest from it, and the more North Americans who stop tuning in, the greater the chance that each side will discontinue this nonsense. They're both doing it for attention, and to win the public relations war in North America and the EU.

David · Jun 8, 2010

The blockade/siege is effectively over. In response to the to the aid ships and Israeli actions, Egypt has abandoned the it's siege and is now allowing open trade with Gaza via it's border.

notimpressed · Jun 18, 2010

"Excuse me, could I please point something out? The flotilla was entering a blockaded zone and refused to be boarded. Then they resisted the IDF navy soldiers boarding, and attacked them."

Nowhere have I ever heard that. The first place Id expect to hear that was American TV. It(US TV) has said they were Turks. I would also not invite the IDF on my vessel for any reason. Given their repuation. Doing so would be a death wish. AS it was.

The comment about huumanitairan aid being let it is far from the whole truth. Few of it is and what is is subject to the whim of the Isreali goverment. I have ltos of video too. Plenty of the barbaric treatment of Palestinian innocetns at the hands of IDF, Isreali police, and Isreali settlers. Its hard to drum up sympathy given the decades long suffering brought to innocetn Palestinian via Isreali action.

If all Isreal was doing was stopping gun runners, fine. But theres no reality in that. Theya re doing far far more.

Dirk · Jun 19, 2010

notimpressed said:
Nowhere have I ever heard that. The first place Id expect to hear that was American TV. It(US TV) has said they were Turks.

Then stop listening to wildly biased sources.

I would also not invite the IDF on my vessel for any reason. Given their repuation. Doing so would be a death wish. AS it was.

Attacking armed soldiers with live fire is a death wish, yes. The IDF did not require an invitation, they were enforcing a blockade.

The comment about huumanitairan aid being let it is far from the whole truth. Few of it is and what is is subject to the whim of the Isreali goverment.

Yes, there are things like concrete being banned, but most important humanitarian aid is let though, as is required by international law. Indeed the ships were harboured and the aid brought into Gaza by Israel.

I have ltos of video too. Plenty of the barbaric treatment of Palestinian innocetns at the hands of IDF, Isreali police, and Isreali settlers.

You think there haven't been disgusting atrocities on both sides? Focussing on one sides crimes and ignoring the others' is ridiculous partisan posturing. There has been torture, and I condemn that, and further, I think many actions of the Israeli state are horrendous and morally reprehensible. But it is not acceptable to ignore the fact that the Palestinian regime is just as bad, if not worse.

Its hard to drum up sympathy given the decades long suffering brought to innocetn Palestinian via Isreali action.

I repeat, what about the innocent Israelis brutally murdered, tortured and detained by Hamas?

If all Isreal was doing was stopping gun runners, fine. But theres no reality in that. Theya re doing far far more.

It is more than that, yes. Israel is protecting its citizens. The current regime feels a military blockade is necessary to do this.

notimpressed · Jun 19, 2010

Bias like BBC and CNN? Like the Turkish foriegn minister on live TV? He was jsut making up the fact his citzens were killed? I dont think so. Yes the mighty IDF does a wonderful job defenidng itslef from women and children daily. yay for them. The fact that the US media whom is "wildly bias" in favor of the Isrealis has not mande these claims. I don't buy any of this. I am sure these protesters were as threating as the Aid workers that were bulldozed by the IDF some years back.

David · Jun 20, 2010

Dirk, they are banning stuff that can't be used as wepons, and only allow 10 or so tons of aid out of a recumended 60.

As Hamas said in respnce to their refusal o aid, "10 tones of aid isn't aid at ll, it's something to be joked at." Not an exact quote mind you, i'm going off memory. The point remins however.

notimpressed · Jun 22, 2010

Israelis barbaric policy of collective punishment is well known. Even the US, which in the realm of bias on the issue is King. Nowhere, not even in Israel itself is criticism of Israeli policy’s so emphatically squelched.

As far as International Law there is not a country on the planet that has not had representative mention the record Israeli has for total disregard for International law. Well over 200 UN resolutions have been totally ignored by Israeli, and the US has voted against them all.

Dirk · Jun 23, 2010

When the fact that the "protesters" launched a planned attack against soldiers doing their job, injuring several with live fire, is ignored by a media outlet, yes, I would call it biased.

notimpressed · Jun 23, 2010

So your telling me the Turkish forign misinster is msking up the facts. So is Wolf Blitzer of CNN? They are all in a huge conspriacy alojng with the rest of the world to get Isreal? LOL. righhhht. http://www.google.com/search?q=Isra...en-us&ei=J4YiTKmNGsOAlAfU_PmBBg&start=10&sa=N

Evbeybody on this search are all in on this conspraicy.

Dirk · Jun 24, 2010

notimpressed said:
So your telling me the Turkish forign misinster is msking up the facts. So is Wolf Blitzer of CNN? They are all in a huge conspriacy alojng with the rest of the world to get Isreal? LOL. righhhht. http://www.google.com/search?q=Isra...en-us&ei=J4YiTKmNGsOAlAfU_PmBBg&start=10&sa=N

Evbeybody on this search are all in on this conspraicy.

Shh, i'm not a conspiracy nut! Haha! I'm also not "pro-Israel". But I am not "pro-Palestine" I'm a socialist, and I am an internationalist. I am both pro-Israeli and pro-Palestinian. And yes, I support the IDF soldiers in this case. And for good reason.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvS9PXZ3RWM

notimpressed · Jun 24, 2010

There is no fact about these "launched attacks." That’s simply not the case. If the poor old Israelis were victimized American TV would be the first ones howling. They aren’t, they are discussing the reality: A splintered relation between Israeli and Turkey, and massive Turkish protests against Israelis. Like the recent protest at Israelis embassy in Turkey. The poor little Israelis bomb the tar out of women and children on an alarmingly frequent basis. They won’t get, nor deserve, any sympathy outside of the US, UK.

The serach results link show countless articles on the real goings on and issues here. That does nlt include teh standard line of bull issued from the Isreali goverment.

Israel questioned upon flotilla assault

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