Jobs in America

JustHatched said:

With all the talk of jobs going to other countries and the current recession, if you had the power to make all the changes to the country to resolve this issue what would you do?

I would put a huge tariff/tax on the Chinese (or any other country) imports of all that cheap plastic stuff that we buy so that it would be cheaper to make in the US. Keep the unions out of the US factories so you don't end up with extremely high wages and have a deal like GM with their massive retirements that causes prices to go up.

NAFTA-what has this brought us, it has brought jobs to Mexico but done little for the US.

Green Energy- We need a bigger push to build and install solar and wind generation. Create jobs this way in the construction and running and maintaining these areas. Build more hybrid or all electric cars.

Just my thoughts, probably good I'm not in politics.

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First thing I want done is a good "American" made TV.

JustHatched said:

With all the talk of jobs going to other countries and the current recession, if you had the power to make all the changes to the country to resolve this issue what would you do?

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I don't know. I'm more anti-stuff than pro-stuff. Haha. Also, i wouldn't really like to be in that position, disagreeing with authority and all.

I would put a huge tariff/tax on the Chinese (or any other country) imports of all that cheap plastic stuff that we buy so that it would be cheaper to make in the US.

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The US is already doing this, to some extent.

Keep the unions out of the US factories so you don't end up with extremely high wages and have a deal like GM with their massive retirements that causes prices to go up.

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*shivers involuntarily*

NAFTA-what has this brought us, it has brought jobs to Mexico but done little for the US.

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It has destroyed jobs in Mexico. The purpose of NAFTA is to provide a market for heavily subsidised US agribusiness to flood with cheap US goods. It's other purpose is to undermine trade unions and keep workers in their place.

I think i actully just wrote about NAFTA in another thread.

Green Energy- We need a bigger push to build and install solar and wind generation. Create jobs this way in the construction and running and maintaining these areas. Build more hybrid or all electric cars.

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Three letters that would solve all energy problems practically forever - EGS.

Just my thoughts, probably good I'm not in politics.

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Yah.

Good ideas with green energy, though. I just think there are better alternatives. One in particular. You seem to have a mistaken view about NAFTA and i would fear for my working conditions, wages, job security etc, however.

I would want to start a new Government from scratch, like the old Founding Fathers had to do. The Federal Government has become too heavy and cumbersome with layers and layers of redundant and outdated legislation and costly regulations. I don't know why we are still speaking about States, as the Federal Government has taken over their Governments as well, either directly through Federal Legislation, or indirectly through blackmail funding and corrupt separate deals (viz Nebraska deal with Medical Reform Legislation).

I would want very little central Government such as had been in existence in the beginning of time, and the States take responsibility for their own affairs.

JustHatched said:

With all the talk of jobs going to other countries and the current recession, if you had the power to make all the changes to the country to resolve this issue what would you do?

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First I would cut taxes (including abolish many like the income tax) and abolish the Fed. After that, I would seek to abolish welfare programs as well as bring our troops home from many of the places where we currently are around the world. I would then place some troops on the border with Mexico to protect our homeland and I would seek to increase the flow of information within our intelligence agencies (and maybe abolish some of them too.) I would then do a lot more abolishing of Federal government programs that really should not exist. There are a lot more details into each one of those plans and I might have forgotten a thing or two, but it would be quite a busy time . I don't believe in authoritarianism, especially in the United States, so even in a hypothetical situation I would seek the approval of Congress in the regular legislative process. Yea, it might take a while to get all that done, but it's principle.

JustHatched said:

I would put a huge tariff/tax on the Chinese (or any other country) imports of all that cheap plastic stuff that we buy so that it would be cheaper to make in the US.

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No! This is what is already happening in the steal and sugar industries among others. Protectionism as China and India's past shows us only hurts the consumer and helps domestic corporations. This is not the way to go in solving a jobs crisis.

JustHatched said:

Keep the unions out of the US factories so you don't end up with extremely high wages and have a deal like GM with their massive retirements that causes prices to go up.

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I wouldn't keep the unions out, but I would seek to abolish laws that favor unions (as well as corporations) over the other. I would also abolish the minimum wage as it only leads to further unemployment.

JustHatched said:

NAFTA-what has this brought us, it has brought jobs to Mexico but done little for the US.

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Abolish NAFTA- that's on my list too.

JustHatched said:

Green Energy- We need a bigger push to build and install solar and wind generation. Create jobs this way in the construction and running and maintaining these areas. Build more hybrid or all electric cars.

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I would try to achieve this through the already massive private green movement. I would not do it through government or government subsidies, etc.

JustHatched said:

Just my thoughts, probably good I'm not in politics.

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Don't worry about that, no one knows the future so we are all guessing as we go anyway (some with a few more facts behind the guesses, but guesses none-the-less)

Dirk said:

*shivers involuntarily*

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Why not use :cold:? lol.

deanhills said:

I would want to start a new Government from scratch, like the old Founding Fathers had to do. The Federal Government has become too heavy and cumbersome with layers and layers of redundant and outdated legislation and costly regulations. I don't know why we are still speaking about States, as the Federal Government has taken over their Governments as well, either directly through Federal Legislation, or indirectly through blackmail funding and corrupt separate deals (viz Nebraska deal with Medical Reform Legislation).

I would want very little central Government such as had been in existence in the beginning of time, and the States take responsibility for their own affairs.

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That works too.

myp said:

Why not use :cold:? lol.

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Oh, i hadn't noticed that one. Haha.

deanhills said:

I would want to start a new Government from scratch, like the old Founding Fathers had to do. The Federal Government has become too heavy and cumbersome with layers and layers of redundant and outdated legislation and costly regulations. I don't know why we are still speaking about States, as the Federal Government has taken over their Governments as well, either directly through Federal Legislation, or indirectly through blackmail funding and corrupt separate deals (viz Nebraska deal with Medical Reform Legislation).

I would want very little central Government such as had been in existence in the beginning of time, and the States take responsibility for their own affairs.

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I'm with you. I think things are so bad you could drum up support for revolution from the Left AND Right. I think the only reason it hasn't happened yet (actually 2 reasons) is 1. people don't want to shoot their compatriots in some civil war and 2. their is no leadership to unite the militias, protest movements, ect.

Thankfully this is easily solved. The Constitution provides for it's amendment/abolishment by popular acclaim (so no civil war) and their our possible leaders (Rep. Paul, Sen. Sanders [a socialist and Ron Paul ally], Rush Limbaugh :skull:, ect).

So if these 2 things can come into play, I think we'll see change.

David said:

Thankfully this is easily solved. The Constitution provides for it's amendment/abolishment by popular acclaim (so no civil war) and their our possible leaders (Rep. Paul, Sen. Sanders [a socialist and Ron Paul ally], Rush Limbaugh :skull:, ect).

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Good that you are so positive. I'm a little sceptical, as the same system that you believe can be responsible for changing the Constitution, has been responsible for a 2000 plus page medicare reform Bill that has not been thought through and sorted out at all. I'm still completely tickled by the Nebraskan deal that allowed an extra Senate vote in favour of the Bill. So much focus as well has gone into these 2000 plus pages to the detriment of other issues such as safety and security of the country against terrorism. Surely there should be some checks and balances that says only so much time of Congress and Senate can be spent on any one Bill and if the Bill should go into excess of the time limitation that it should be started from scratch. There should also be limitations placed on deal making and negotiation of votes, especially in as significant legislation as this one. Representatives of Congress and Senate should also be compelled to go back to their constituencies in serious legislation like this one to give them a thorough presentation of the 2000 plus pages. I feel the system as is has allowed something that is very serious to be skimmed through. That system needs to be overhauled so that it could be more democratic and represenative of the people of the United States. Legislation also needs to be simplified and should preferably be as little as possible, for example the Federal Government should stick to foreign affairs, military and security and allow the States to manage their own affairs.

deanhills said:

Good that you are so positive. I'm a little sceptical, as the same system that you believe can be responsible for changing the Constitution, has been responsible for a 2000 plus page medicare reform Bill that has not been thought through and sorted out at all. I'm still completely tickled by the Nebraskan deal that allowed an extra Senate vote in favour of the Bill. So much focus as well has gone into these 2000 plus pages to the detriment of other issues such as safety and security of the country against terrorism. Surely there should be some checks and balances that says only so much time of Congress and Senate can be spent on any one Bill and if the Bill should go into excess of the time limitation that it should be started from scratch. There should also be limitations placed on deal making and negotiation of votes, especially in as significant legislation as this one. Representatives of Congress and Senate should also be compelled to go back to their constituencies in serious legislation like this one to give them a thorough presentation of the 2000 plus pages. I feel the system as is has allowed something that is very serious to be skimmed through. That system needs to be overhauled so that it could be more democratic and represenative of the people of the United States. Legislation also needs to be simplified and should preferably be as little as possible, for example the Federal Government should stick to foreign affairs, military and security and allow the States to manage their own affairs.

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Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

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The bolded is important. If an amendment to/abolishment of the Constitution passes by referendum in 3/4 the states (the opinions of state/Fed gov'ts being irrelevant), it's law. So call for a national referendum to abolish the constitution and if it passes in at least 3/4 of the states, it's out. Thus, so long as people of influence are waiting in the wings to establish an interim gov't, revolution without civil war or even violation of existing laws is possible.

David said:

The bolded is important. If an amendment to/abolishment of the Constitution passes by referendum in 3/4 the states (the opinions of state/Fed gov'ts being irrelevant), it's law. So call for a national referendum to abolish the constitution and if it passes in at least 3/4 of the states, it's out. Thus, so long as people of influence are waiting in the wings to establish an interim gov't, revolution without civil war or even violation of existing laws is possible.

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OK, I understand where you are coming from, but if votes can be "bought" with deals, how meaningful are they really?

deanhills said:

OK, I understand where you are coming from, but if votes can be "bought" with deals, how meaningful are they really?

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Tell everyone that we're going to hold a constitutional convention to remake our gov't in a way that actually works and that'll be a sufficient deal to 'buy' all the votes you need.

As I already said, our gov't is hated. Only an aversion to civil war (the last few we fought were a bit bloody for our tastes) stops revolution.

David said:

Tell everyone that we're going to hold a constitutional convention to remake our gov't in a way that actually works and that'll be a sufficient deal to 'buy' all the votes you need.

As I already said, our gov't is hated. Only an aversion to civil war (the last few we fought were a bit bloody for our tastes) stops revolution.

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I have a question as you are more of an expert on the history of the Constitution, was the Constitution created by democratic vote, or by a select group of people? And if "yes" to the latter, would it not be common sense that the ideal architects for a revised Government would be a select group of people, rather than trying to attain the impossible by finding a 75% agreement of all the changes. I can just see that it will go the same way as the health reform bill, thousands of pages, that the people are supposed to vote would have not time to read properly, and then addenda after addenda.

deanhills said:

I have a question as you are more of an expert on the history of the Constitution, was the Constitution created by democratic vote, or by a select group of people? And if "yes" to the latter, would it not be common sense that the ideal architects for a revised Government would be a select group of people, rather than trying to attain the impossible by finding a 75% agreement of all the changes. I can just see that it will go the same way as the health reform bill, thousands of pages, that the people are supposed to vote would have not time to read properly, and then addenda after addenda.

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No it wasn't democratic (they placed a military guard at every entrance w/o telling them was was going on and despite being in an un-air conditioned building in the middle of summer, they closed all the windows and shudders to keep citizens/spies for seeing what they were doing). When all was said and done they presented a new constitution to congress. This was quite the shock as they were only supposed to amend the original constitution. It almost wasn't ratified and only the fact that the AoC remained valid in the states that refused to ratify it kept it from being rejected out of hand. For a short time this resulted in 2 USAs existing, 1 the federation we all know today and the other the original alliance of independent but centralized nations (this is why the secessionist movement in Vermont is so strong, being the last state to ratify the Constitution, they were effectively an independent nation).

David said:

No it wasn't democratic (they placed a military guard at every entrance w/o telling them was was going on and despite being in an un-air conditioned building in the middle of summer, they closed all the windows and shudders to keep citizens/spies for seeing what they were doing). When all was said and done they presented a new constitution to congress. This was quite the shock as they were only supposed to amend the original constitution. It almost wasn't ratified and only the fact that the AoC remained valid in the states that refused to ratify it kept it from being rejected out of hand. For a short time this resulted in 2 USAs existing, 1 the federation we all know today and the other the original alliance of independent but centralized nations (this is why the secessionist movement in Vermont is so strong, being the last state to ratify the Constitution, they were effectively an independent nation).

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Wow! Those guys must have had lots of guts, I guess we need those kind of guys today?

The problem is that most people are egocentric; they are only concerned about things that affect themselves. The truth about unemployment is evident only when they find themselves unemployed with their jobs outsourced to India, their healthcare cancelled - not to mention the loss of their pension plan. Then, you see, it's a real problem - a problem that the government should do something about!

Nemo said:

The problem is that most people are egocentric; they are only concerned about things that affect themselves. The truth about unemployment is evident only when they find themselves unemployed with their jobs outsourced to India, their healthcare cancelled - not to mention the loss of their pension plan. Then, you see, it's a real problem - a problem that the government should do something about!

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Can you blame them for being egocentric? At the end of the day one is bound to look after themselves before looking after others.

Also, I disagree in that the government needs to do something. I think it is quite evident that it is government that has caused a lot of this to begin with and I think they should be doing less. High corporate and incomes taxes as well as excessive regulations are often the reason for outsourcing in the first place.

Nemo said:

The problem is that most people are egocentric;

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Probably has something to do with the survival of the species, that may also mean competing with one another.

I agree however, that since Government as an institution is supposed to look after people, and they are there, thriving on people's taxes, that they should work in unemployment in their agendas in a big way. One small thing they can do is to fire some of the BIG CHIEFS in Government, as there are just too many of them, and for the equivalent of their salaries, employ people in the lower ranks, the area which the BIG CHIEFS always work on to get rid of people, in order to keep their own jobs.

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the same and than the earth namely the air and then the earth in the great cold the great dark the air and the earth abode of stones in the great cold alas alas in the year of their Lord six hundred and something the air the earth the sea the earth abode of stones in the great deeps the great cold on sea on land and in the air I resume for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis the facts are there but time will tell I resume alas alas on on in short in fine on on abode of stones who can doubt it I resume but not so fast I resume the skull to shrink and waste and concurrently simultaneously what is more for reasons unknown in spite of the tennis on on the beard the flames the tears the stones so blue so calm alas alas on on the skull the skull the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the labours abandoned left unfinished graver still abode of stones in a word I resume alas alas abandoned unfinished the skull the skull in Connemara in spite of the tennis the skull alas the stones Cunard (mêlée, final vociferations) tennis… the stones… so calm… Cunard… unfinished…”