Most compelling arguments for and against God

Recaner · Dec 29, 2009

There have been many discussion I've seen over the existence of God (this topic isn't really about that though) and from time to time I see some really common arguments for and against God.

Anyways my question is what have been the most compelling arguments, either for or against God, in your opinion.

Nemo · Dec 29, 2009

"Man is certainly stark mad. He cannot make a worm an yet he will be making Gods by the dozens."
- Michel Eyquem de Montaigne (1553-1592)
. . .

We know that god exists because man invented god.

Dirk · Dec 30, 2009

I didn't realise there were any compelling arguments for God.

By the way, which one are we talking about?

Jehovah, Shiva, Wotan, Isis, Zeus, Set, Hades, Thor, Ra, Loki, Poseidon, Odin, Apollo, Ba'al, Ares, Athena, Venus, Atlas, Vishnu, Pan, Neptune, Horus, Jupiter, Hera, Gaia, Hermes, Dionysus, Aphrodite, Freya, Mars, Ganesh...?

I could go on, but i think i've made my point.

Nemo · Dec 30, 2009

There are too many gods - and such troublesome beings for all their meddling in the affairs of men - we would be well rid of them. Let them have their heaven for all its cold comfort; for their sake man has made a hell on earth.

Dirk · Dec 30, 2009

Nemo said:
There are too many gods - and such troublesome beings for all their meddling in the affairs of men - we would be well rid of them. Let them have their heaven for all its cold comfort; for their sake man has made a hell on earth.

"His existence necessarily implies the slavery of all that is beneath him. Therefore, if God existed, only in one way could he serve human liberty ? by ceasing to exist."

~ Mikhail Bakunin (on God)

Nearly · Jan 2, 2010

I do Philosophy and Ethics at school and we were talking about this.

If God does exist, does he not care for his creations - letting people die?

As an atheist, I said.. maybe he is letting people die because the world would be overcrowded, causing pain for everyone because there is not enough food for everyone.

DodgeFB · Jan 2, 2010

Nearly said:
I do Philosophy and Ethics at school and we were talking about this.

If God does exist, does he not care for his creations - letting people die?

As an atheist, I said.. maybe he is letting people die because the world would be overcrowded, causing pain for everyone because there is not enough food for everyone.

I was told by an old man at least 50 years ago that every time a disease is "cured" another one will take it's place. Just as there will always be wars that kill people. He has been right so far.

Delta · Jan 2, 2010

Nearly said:
As an atheist, I said.. maybe he is letting people die because the world would be overcrowded, causing pain for everyone because there is not enough food for everyone.

Well, being god he could make the world bigger and create more food. There's no excuse really.

DodgeFB · Jan 2, 2010

Delta said:
Well, being god he could make the world bigger and create more food. There's no excuse really.

God would never need an excuse. An excuse is something you give to someone in authority above you. Since we are not above God he owes us nothing.

Dirk · Jan 2, 2010

DodgeFB said:
God would never need an excuse. An excuse is something you give to someone in authority above you. Since we are not above God he owes us nothing.

Do you think the same of Obama?

Let me assure you, i do not think this way about Gordon Brown or Angela Merkel.

Nemo · Jan 2, 2010

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
- John 1:1 (KJV)
. . .
Without the word, god does not exist.

Delta · Jan 3, 2010

Nemo said:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
- John 1:1 (KJV)
. . .
Without the word, god does not exist.

If I'm reading this right, it seems like circular reasoning to me.

DodgeFB · Jan 3, 2010

Dirk said:
Do you think the same of Obama?

Let me assure you, i do not think this way about Gordon Brown or Angela Merkel.

Obama owes me nothing. I don't support or respect him in anyway. He owes the people that elected him. I have never done anything to make Obama care what I think. And he clearly does not care what I think.

Nemo · Jan 3, 2010

Precisely. The gospel quote (which for purposes of illustration I have posited in the negative) is the classic example of the petitio principii fallacy. Such circular reasoning is the underlying problem with most arguments of a religious nature.

Dirk · Jan 3, 2010

DodgeFB said:
Obama owes me nothing. I don't support or respect him in anyway. He owes the people that elected him. I have never done anything to make Obama care what I think. And he clearly does not care what I think.

I feel the same about God. I don't support or respect him, considering the horrible things he's supposedly done. I did not elect him to be my leader and it's against my morals to choose someone to dominate me - it's humiliating. I don't care what he thinks of me, i doubt he cares what i think of him. Hell, i even doubt his very existence!

deanhills · Jan 6, 2010

Dirk said:
I feel the same about God. I don't support or respect him, considering the horrible things he's supposedly done. I did not elect him to be my leader and it's against my morals to choose someone to dominate me - it's humiliating. I don't care what he thinks of me, i doubt he cares what i think of him. Hell, i even doubt his very existence!

I thought it was people who did horrible things to one another and themselves, not someone from the outside? We make our own choices, and probably need to take responsibility for those too.

DodgeFB · Jan 6, 2010

deanhills said:
I thought it was people who did horrible things to one another and themselves, not someone from the outside? We make our own choices, and probably need to take responsibility for those too.

Absolutely. But it is much easier to blame God and the US for things going wrong.

deanhills · Jan 6, 2010

DodgeFB said:
Absolutely. But it is much easier to blame God and the US for things going wrong.

Well said. Not to forget the media and ACORN, oh yes .... and Bush and Obama ... :giggle:

Dirk · Jan 6, 2010

deanhills said:
I thought it was people who did horrible things to one another and themselves, not someone from the outside? We make our own choices, and probably need to take responsibility for those too.

Well, i was referring to the bible - which is, however, extraordinarily unreliable. (Which is not actually surprising).

DodgeFB said:
Absolutely. But it is much easier to blame God and the US for things going wrong.

I certainly agree with you and Dean that we should start taking responsibilities for our own actions. I might mention that we are oft-times justified in blaming "our" leaders. Power is twinned with responsibility - they need to be held that much more accountable. So first, our actions should have some worth. You could start by introducing democracy? I know it's a radical idea, but i think you might have a shot.

DodgeFB · Jan 6, 2010

Dirk said:
I certainly agree with you and Dean that we should start taking responsibilities for our own actions. I might mention that we are oft-times justified in blaming "our" leaders. Power is twinned with responsibility - they need to be held that much more accountable. So first, our actions should have some worth. You could start by introducing democracy? I know it's a radical idea, but i think you might have a shot.

I think we have to be in free fall as we are now for a bit longer. The Republicans had to embarrass themselves and now we are watching the Democrats do the same. Someday maybe everyone will get tired of beating their head against a wall and "want"to do it right. I will never live to see it. But you might.:unsure:

Most compelling arguments for and against God

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