Pirates?

omej · Apr 10, 2009

What do we do about these Somali pirates? I think this is the first time they got an American ship. Props to the crew for re-gaining control of the ship but they still have the captain.

What do you guys think we need to do in the long run to take care of piracy? Go inside Somalia itself? It isn't reasonable to expect our Navy to be able to patrol such a large area by itself. They simple can't be everywhere at once.

The Parakeet · Apr 10, 2009

I don't think that there is much we can do. There are only two real courses of action.

The corridor - We're working on this now. Just have a bunch of international ships patrolling the area and keeping a safe lane of passage open. I believe the Russians would help a lot with this. They've responded pretty harshly against the pirates before.

Better Security Crews - The ships need to have a few security agents on board. Possibly some regulations that would allow actual weapons to be on the ship. The pirates are doing it because its easy money for the most part. Knocking out more of the boats would probably have a strong response. Especially since the pirates are the ones who are limited. They get nothing if the target boat sinks.

We could never go into Somalia. The pirates would just lay low for a month or so. Everyone's got firepower in the country, so there'd be no way to tell the difference between pirates and average guys. They also got a lot of coastline with a lot of room for discrete docks, so a long term occupation would just see them sticking to unpopulated areas.

omej · Apr 10, 2009

The Parakeet said:
I don't think that there is much we can do. There are only two real courses of action.

The corridor - We're working on this now. Just have a bunch of international ships patrolling the area and keeping a safe lane of passage open. I believe the Russians would help a lot with this. They've responded pretty harshly against the pirates before.

I don't think this is feasible for an extended period of time. It's just too large of a coastline to protect and ships are rarely ever able to stop a pirating attempt before it happens.

Better Security Crews - The ships need to have a few security agents on board. Possibly some regulations that would allow actual weapons to be on the ship. The pirates are doing it because its easy money for the most part. Knocking out more of the boats would probably have a strong response. Especially since the pirates are the ones who are limited. They get nothing if the target boat sinks.

100% fully agree right here. We're talking 3 guys with ak's taking over supertankers. Put a few guns on these boats and the pirates would done for in no time. Easiest solution.

We could never go into Somalia. The pirates would just lay low for a month or so. Everyone's got firepower in the country, so there'd be no way to tell the difference between pirates and average guys. They also got a lot of coastline with a lot of room for discrete docks, so a long term occupation would just see them sticking to unpopulated areas.

We could train a security force there but yeah going in would be Iraq x 100. Besides, we have other wars to spend our resources on. Not to mention everybody still has Mogadishu 93 still in their heads.

Sparks · Apr 10, 2009

I don't think it is that big a deal. Convoys of ships would take care of it. Escort them with a couple of warships and fast attack smaller vessels and shazzam, no more problem. Pirates really don't like stiff resistance. Convoying twice a day or so would do fine, one for slow ships and one for faster ships.

deanhills · Apr 11, 2009

omeythehomie said:
What do we do about these Somali pirates? I think this is the first time they got an American ship. Props to the crew for re-gaining control of the ship but they still have the captain.

What do you guys think we need to do in the long run to take care of piracy? Go inside Somalia itself? It isn't reasonable to expect our Navy to be able to patrol such a large area by itself. They simple can't be everywhere at once.

Probably try and stay as far away from Somalia as possible, only follow a route past Somalia if it is the only route to follow. Probably there has to be some cooperation with the Government of Somalia as well, although it would appear as though Somalia is not doing that well with lots of domestic disturbances everywhere. It is a very unstable country.

Sorry about the Captain. Looks like a very brave guy, attempting to get out of the boat. Hope this will have a good ending, but wonder whether the terrorists can get anything in exchange. Must say I was suprised that the Americans got caught, given that everyone knows this is a dangerous pirate area.

GekiDan · Apr 11, 2009

From what I have heard on the news in the past months, many cargo ships are being seized by the Somali Pirates. The ship's crews made up of different nationalities and that includes some Filipinos who are working as a seaman.

Do the last ship has Filipinos on board?

The Parakeet · Apr 11, 2009

The problem is that there is no "Government of Somalia". There are a few people who claim to be the leaders, but they have no real power. It's basically pure anarchy there.

Delta · Apr 11, 2009

I think this is all pretty ridiculous. To have pirates in this day and age actually getting away with stealing large cargo ships. Would it really be that hard to catch these guys? There must be some way of tracking the ships back to port, or catching them with faster ships. Once found, kill them and move on with it.

The Parakeet · Apr 11, 2009

Well they usually just hold the ship for ransom.

If we try to take them out, then they'll kill the crew or even scuttle the ship. It's usually best to just pay them off once they have a hold of the ship.

GekiDan · Apr 12, 2009

Delta said:
I think this is all pretty ridiculous. To have pirates in this day and age actually getting away with stealing large cargo ships. Would it really be that hard to catch these guys? There must be some way of tracking the ships back to port, or catching them with faster ships. Once found, kill them and move on with it.

Well... Can't they use stealth fighter planes, helicopters or submarines to follow and catch these guys when they rob or shipnap? Don't cargo ships have tracking devices onboard? I really think newer ships do have that but I may be mistaken.

The Parakeet · Apr 12, 2009

It's too hard to get them though. They usually hold the crew hostage while they wait. They don't hide either. They usually just sit in the open water and wait for someone with money to come. That's what they've done with the bigger ships at least.

The benefit of open water is that it would be almost impossible for a stealth attack. Even if some special forces team could get on board the ship, they would still need to quickly capture a large ship with a lot of narrow hallways. It could turn into a real bloodbath quickly.

Sparks · Apr 12, 2009

I am surprised some private outfit isn't offering to handle security for ships in transit. Seems like some well armed security guards might be a lot cheaper than paying ransom. Just have them get on and off. Lots of ideas, but I guess if we haven't actually sailed those waters, it's hard to tell why the pirates can be so elusive.

The Parakeet · Apr 12, 2009

That would probably be the best idea. The problem is cost. It might be cheaper for the companies to just roll the dice and pay a ransom if it happens.

You also have a huge problem when it comes to ships like this. This one was running food to Somalia as part of an aid program. They can't exactly afford mercs. I would hope that there would be some way to put a few marines on board though.

DodgeFB · Apr 13, 2009

Other countries need to come up with some punishment that is too much for them to pay. When one of them is identified send some bad guys there to get their family. Make it hurt them so much they will not ever want "company" to come to their door.

Or every time a ship is grabbed go there and bomb the h-ll of something they need.

I am all for being as harsh as it takes for them to get the message.

The Parakeet · Apr 13, 2009

It's Somalia

. Not a heck of a lot there. Plus most of the pirates are just your standard bandits operating out of motherships disguised as standard ships in various docks. I think the Indian government took one out a few months ago, but they are too hard to spot in general.

GekiDan · Apr 13, 2009

There's a news last night about the rescue of the hostaged captain. I have heard that the rescuers killed three of the pirates and caught one of them. It is said that the said pirate is on interrogation now.

curious · Apr 13, 2009

Piracy has been a problem in the Philippines and Indonesia for years. The Indonesian and Malaysian governments have had some success in making the Straits of Malacca safe (between Sumatra and peninsular Malaysia) with increased ship and air patrols. The same thing could probably done along the Somali coast, but it would have to be an international force. As has been pointed out, Somalia is just a collection of fiefdoms ruled by warlords.

It's like a lot of African countries, un-developing. It's just further along.

Sparks · Apr 13, 2009

I've been reading comments from Europe complaining about the high handed way the Americans shot the pirates, some whom are seen as poor fishermen out of work and needing assistance. That the poor fishermen were pointing guns at the captain and demanding millions of dollars in ransom, not gift certificates to McDonalds, doesn't seem to faze the critics.

On the other hand, even US military brass have acknowledged that shooting the pirates will up the ante in future scenarios. So while I don't feel sorry for the pirates that got shot, I do feel some concern about the next hostage and the circumstance he will find himself in.

But bottom line, maybe we should revive keel hauling or those cute iron cages with rotting bodies that used to greet seafarers arriving in British ports.

DodgeFB · Apr 14, 2009

I do not feel sorry for anyone killed while committing a crime. If I was robbing a bank I would expect to be shot. There needs to be some "real fear" put in these pirate dudes. Just to let them know this is not a game anymore.

Delta · Apr 14, 2009

Sparks said:
I've been reading comments from Europe complaining about the high handed way the Americans shot the pirates, some whom are seen as poor fishermen out of work and needing assistance. That the poor fishermen were pointing guns at the captain and demanding millions of dollars in ransom, not gift certificates to McDonalds, doesn't seem to faze the critics.

On the other hand, even US military brass have acknowledged that shooting the pirates will up the ante in future scenarios. So while I don't feel sorry for the pirates that got shot, I do feel some concern about the next hostage and the circumstance he will find himself in.

But bottom line, maybe we should revive keel hauling or those cute iron cages with rotting bodies that used to greet seafarers arriving in British ports.

I don't get people that feel sorry for criminals (the homicidal, rapist types)... I don't get it at all. I often wonder if they'd feel any different if it was a family member of theirs that was the victim. I would imagine that would put things in perspective for them.

Pirates?

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