pre-existence of souls?

tecoyah · Sep 16, 2017

arcturus88 said:
has this occurred on this thread?

how does one "claim a reality" for someone else?

Please read what you decided to harp on in context in order to avoid seeming disingenuous.

"Until a thing is shown to even exist any talk of "When" is not even worthy of speculation. It is fine for any individual to believe whatever they wish, but claiming it as reality for anyone else is unacceptable."

arcturus88 · Sep 16, 2017

tecoyah said:
Please read what you decided to harp on in context in order to avoid seeming disingenuous.

"Until a thing is shown to even exist any talk of "When" is not even worthy of speculation. It is fine for any individual to believe whatever they wish, but claiming it as reality for anyone else is unacceptable."

Yeah. It's the part in bold I'm questioning. Has this happened? Have I claimed my theory as a reality for anyone else here?

tecoyah · Sep 17, 2017

arcturus88 said:
Yeah. It's the part in bold I'm questioning. Has this happened? Have I claimed my theory as a reality for anyone else here?

This thread asks a question, a question asked generally infers there is something that begs an answer, "Something" must exists to be answered. I answered.

There is no logical reason to take this as some personal response.

arcturus88 · Sep 18, 2017

tecoyah said:
This thread asks a question, a question asked generally infers there is something that begs an answer, "Something" must exists to be answered. I answered.

There is no logical reason to take this as some personal response.

very well.

numan · Sep 18, 2017

'
I like to toy with the fancy, common to both the Zoroastrians and the Neo-Platonists, that the vast mass of "our" souls resides beyond the boundaries of space and time. A personal soul is merely a tiny fragment of the Oversoul, which, like the pseudopod of an amoeba, explores a region of space and time and then is withdrawn back into the mass of the Oversoul with what it has collected from its explorations.
.

Road Warrior · Sep 19, 2017

numan said:
'
I like to toy with the fancy, common to both the Zoroastrians and the Neo-Platonists, that the vast mass of "our" souls resides beyond the boundaries of space and time. A personal soul is merely a tiny fragment of the Oversoul, which, like the pseudopod of an amoeba, explores a region of space and time and then is withdrawn back into the mass of the Oversoul with what it has collected from its explorations.
.

Po-TA-to, po-TAH-to. Another name for "Oversoul" is God. Not the "God" written into certain ancient texts, but the power behind the creation of the Universe and of which we are all a part.

One analogy I've used is the cycle of water on Earth: There is the great Ocean. Heat causes some water to evaporate, rise, condense and fall back into the Ocean as individual drops. Some of those drops fall onto land and, after a great journey, back into the great Ocean. The drops are never lost when melting back into the Ocean because they were always part of the Ocean to begin with.

David · Sep 19, 2017

Road Warrior said:
1) The Bible, while containing a lot of ancient wisdom, also contains a lot of perceptions from relatively unsophisticated people 2000-4000 years ago.

2) If God is both all-knowing and all-powerful, then God knowingly created "evil" and there can be no doubt about the victor in a battle between good and evil.

3) I expect the vast majority of the story about Lucifer and fallen angels is apocryphal. although there is the possibility that it's a distortion of actual historical events such as fallen civilizations or the arrival of humans on the planet. This latter is intriguing, and there are tens of thousands of year gaps in our history, but has zero evidence backing it.

You assume Yahweh, Canaanite storm god and self proclaimed as vengeful and greedy, isn't evil. The assumption that Yahweh is benevolent (contrary to his own pronouncements) is the source of your confusion. Yahweh demands that we (willingly) submit to him as slaves ready and eager to do his bidding. To those that submit and obey he promises greatness (for a slave) and for all others death. He is an evil god that rewards his minions and loyal (and useful) slaves. When you understand this, his allowing of evil and suffering is not at all baffling, indeed it's clear it can be no other way.

tecoyah · Sep 19, 2017

David said:
You assume Yahweh, Canaanite storm god and self proclaimed as vengeful and greedy, isn't evil. The assumption that Yahweh is benevolent (contrary to his own pronouncements) is the source of your confusion. Yahweh demands that we (willingly) submit to him as slaves ready and eager to do his bidding. To those that submit and obey he promises greatness (for a slave) and for all others death. He is an evil god that rewards his minions and loyal (and useful) slaves. When you understand this, his allowing of evil and suffering is not at all baffling, indeed it's clear it can be no other way.

It is also important to note that you must deal with his middleman and never even meet this God, while understanding this middleman does not exactly have a sterling reputation.

David · Sep 20, 2017

tecoyah said:
It is also important to note that you must deal with his middleman and never even meet this God, while understanding this middleman does not exactly have a sterling reputation.

I chulk a good part of that up to the Roman government trying to take control of Jesus' cult than any actual religious messaging. When I was a Christian I was a red text Christian for that reason and Jesus pretty clearly says that pray in private, pray simply and pray TO Yahweh. The idea that people are supposed to worship Jesus (contrary to what he said and a blatant violation of the 1st Commandment) is something the Romans invented to win over polytheists. He's not REALLY a middle man, just a messenger.

arcturus88 · Sep 20, 2017

Aufgeblassen said:
What in the Barney purple blazes is that???

In the ENTIRE World Wide Web, only one (1) individual used that EXACT phrase!!! In other words, NO SUCH THING!

if you can't find it on the internet, it doesn't exist?

denial is a powerful defense mechanism for you. Ironic, or perhaps telling, given your atheism.

arcturus88 · Sep 20, 2017

Aufgeblassen said:
Somebody's own personal/private phrases do indeed exist. But they are MEANINGLESS to the rest of the world!!!

I know what he meant.

Someone who follows the words Jesus spoke. In many bibles they are highlighted in red.

arcturus88 · Sep 20, 2017

I'm gradually dragging you kicking and screaming out of denial.

from...NO SUCH THING! to ...MEANINGLESS to...extremely obscure.

David · Sep 20, 2017

arcturus88 said:
I'm gradually dragging you kicking and screaming out of denial.

from...NO SUCH THING! to ...MEANINGLESS to...extremely obscure.

Sometimes I wish I didn't have him on ignore so that I could watch his amazing mental gymnastics.

numan · Sep 20, 2017

Road Warrior said:
One analogy I've used is the cycle of water on Earth: There is the great Ocean. Heat causes some water to evaporate, rise, condense and fall back into the Ocean as individual drops. Some of those drops fall onto land and, after a great journey, back into the great Ocean. The drops are never lost when melting back into the Ocean because they were always part of the Ocean to begin with.

Oh, you afficianado of Advaita Vedanta ! ---

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numan · Sep 20, 2017

David said:
You assume Yahweh, Canaanite storm god and self proclaimed as vengeful and greedy, isn't evil. The assumption that Yahweh is benevolent (contrary to his own pronouncements) is the source of your confusion. Yahweh demands that we (willingly) submit to him as slaves ready and eager to do his bidding. To those that submit and obey he promises greatness (for a slave) and for all others death. He is an evil god that rewards his minions and loyal (and useful) slaves. When you understand this, his allowing of evil and suffering is not at all baffling, indeed it's clear it can be no other way.

Oh, you Manichean Gnostic ! ---

.

pre-existence of souls?

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