SISs (safe injection sites)

Delta · Apr 17, 2009

The Parakeet said:
The hilarious (to a cynical jerk like me) thing is that DARE has been a failure. Studies think that its actually pushing kids toward drugs in general. The whole "Weed will make you go crazy thing" that's still in the program just makes kids roll their eyes. It also focuses too much on how all the cool kids will want you to do drugs...so a lot of kids who want to be cool do drugs (when in reality it's usually the a-holes that no one likes who are really users).

Well, ya, the programs have to be realistic too... I'd roll my eyes at weed making you go crazy too. It also has to focus on the social isolation that will occur - because I agree, I really didn't like any of the users at my school (I'm not talking the occasional joint or anything).

For me, weeds not really an issue that should be forced too hard. It's so common, and most kids know that the side effects are minimal. It's the drugs that actually will f- up your life that needs to be targeted and I dunno about at your school, but the cool kids where I'm from didn't touch anything past shrooms. It's the cocaine, heroin and meth that something needs to be done about.

The Parakeet · Apr 17, 2009

Yeah. I wish we'd get a little more realistic about it all. Then again...I see the whole thing as kinda hopeless. None of those scared straight things work. Teenagers just think that they are invincible (I know most of my old classmates did and still do). There's a point where you just sit back, get cynical, and watch the train wreck.

Delta · Apr 17, 2009

The Parakeet said:
Yeah. I wish we'd get a little more realistic about it all. Then again...I see the whole thing as kinda hopeless. None of those scared straight things work. Teenagers just think that they are invincible (I know most of my old classmates did and still do). There's a point where you just sit back, get cynical, and watch the train wreck.

Yea, sadly this is true about everything - sex (STIs), driving, drugs... you name it and kids think that the laws of nature don't apply to them for some reason. I wonder what separates the kids that think they are invincible from the kids that know they aren't. Only once we know that can we truely work on a solution.

curious · Apr 18, 2009

We had prohibition in the US for quite a while, and it more or less created the mafia. There are some things that will always happen, no matter what, and all you can do is try to limit the negative impact. You don't tell people to never drink, you tell them not to drive while drunk. You come down hard on domestic violence that is triggered or escalated by alcohol or drugs. You try and keep it from spreading disease, and try to keep the violence away from the general population. Of course, a huge percentage of the general population uses drugs, so that's a bit hard.

The Parakeet · Apr 18, 2009

Yeah. What they should really be doing is looking at the SIS and the fact that society has not been brought to a halt in any spot. We might eventually get to a point where we allow such regulated drug use as a means of just combating the problems of illegal drug use.

DodgeFB · Apr 18, 2009

The Parakeet said:
Yeah. What they should really be doing is looking at the SIS and the fact that society has not been brought to a halt in any spot. We might eventually get to a point where we allow such regulated drug use as a means of just combating the problems of illegal drug use.

True. But I don't think just making something legal really solves that many problems. But it does stop the illegal part. Can we just shut down the jails and make "everything" legal? But of course I think this country is going to" h--l in a hand basket" right now.

Just when you think it can't get any worse we always manage to muck things up more.

I don't think I would fit in up in Canada and south of the border with our Mexican friends.

The Parakeet · Apr 18, 2009

Well. The real question is whether they should be illegal in the first place. Something should only be a crime if it noticeably infringes upon the rights of others.

Weed should definitely be legalized under this line of thought (which would do a bit to free up the jails). The other drugs are up for debate. Heroin is pretty nasty, but most of the inherent nastiness comes from the illegality of it all. If they could safely inject, then it might not be as big of a problem to society. Cocaine falls along similar lines. Meth would be tricky, since I believe it is fairly dangerous to mix even under scientific circumstances. LSD might need some very special regulations, just do to the freak out factor. Then again, most users are smart enough to not use it alone on their first go. There's talk that Salvia will replace it anyway (and its not illegal currently).

So yeah. Just my two cents.

Delta · Apr 18, 2009

The Parakeet said:
Well. The real question is whether they should be illegal in the first place. Something should only be a crime if it noticeably infringes upon the rights of others.

Weed should definitely be legalized under this line of thought (which would do a bit to free up the jails). The other drugs are up for debate. Heroin is pretty nasty, but most of the inherent nastiness comes from the illegality of it all. If they could safely inject, then it might not be as big of a problem to society. Cocaine falls along similar lines. Meth would be tricky, since I believe it is fairly dangerous to mix even under scientific circumstances. LSD might need some very special regulations, just do to the freak out factor. Then again, most users are smart enough to not use it alone on their first go. There's talk that Salvia will replace it anyway (and its not illegal currently).

So yeah. Just my two cents.

I'm not sure about cocaine and not infringing on other people - I'm pretty sure in some cases cocaine would increase aggressiveness... but then again - alcohol often does the same thing.

I don't think salvia will replace LSD - from what I've heard salvia isn't really an enjoyable trip - too little control and more frightening than spiritual and mind-opening. Good to try once, but not something you'd do just for fun. That and the trip only lasts for 10-20 minutes whereas LSD I believe is much longer.

Then you have to take into accounts of drugs used for religious purposes (peyote for example) which are legal as well... but only for those that are of that religion? That to me also seems like bs.

The Parakeet · Apr 18, 2009

It just boils down to what the drugs actually do and to what level they actually endanger public safety. Cocaine is sorta on the line for the reasons you listed.

I actually didn't know that Salvia wasn't as enjoyable. Never really interested in drugs due to my control issues. The short trip was a plus though from what I've heard. Any sane person who talks about LSD says that the trip is just boring after the first 30 minutes or so. It can last for up to 8 hours and you are usually too jacked up to fall asleep. Again...never tried it so I don't know.

The Peyote example made me laugh just because it was on Reno 911 reruns a few nights ago. I actually hadn't heard of it, but yeah. That doesn't make a lot of sense.

deanhills · Apr 19, 2009

DodgeFB said:
True. But I don't think just making something legal really solves that many problems.

I agree. The problem is one of addiction in the first place, so why is alcohol permitted, and for that same reason fast foods (which are a known issue with food addiction and obesity). Think this whole issue goes much deeper and has something to do with our brain chemistry. Also of course age-old notorious rebellion against parent control and boredome with society are great culprits here. The whole lifestyle package probably needs to be checked out in a preventive way.

curious · Apr 19, 2009

One of the advantages of legalizing weed is that people should be able to get it without having contact with drug dealers. There are people who move from weed to hard drugs. Obviously not everybody because my whole generation would be spending their golden years in crack houses or trying to sell our wrinkled bodies to get money to score.

I think that some of the escalation happens because once you have contact with a dealer, they will try to push harder stuff. Some people would move up the scale anyway, but I think there are probably a lot who wouldn't if they didn't have the dealer contact.

Of course another advantage of legalizing it is that criminalizing is stupid.

deanhills · Apr 20, 2009

curious said:
Of course another advantage of legalizing it is that criminalizing is stupid.

Maybe it is not completely "stupid". Imagine if it is free tomorrow, and kids at school obviously going for it in droves?

Delta · Apr 20, 2009

deanhills said:
Maybe it is not completely "stupid". Imagine if it is free tomorrow, and kids at school obviously going for it in droves?

Well, I'm sure it would still be regulated - it won't just be a free for all. I'm guessing the age to buy weed would be either 18 or 19 here in Canada, the same age for smokes or alcohol... and you can be sure it would cost quite a bit too. That would be quite the humorous scene though - the entire population of school aged kids all high at the same time.

deanhills · Apr 20, 2009

Delta said:
That would be quite the humorous scene though - the entire population of school aged kids all high at the same time.

Guess we will have Peace and the Sixties all over again ...

DodgeFB · Apr 20, 2009

If they make weed legal they should shut up about smoking. That crap is hard on the lungs too.

The Parakeet · Apr 20, 2009

That's why you make brownies

.

As far as making it legal, they wouldn't just hand it out at street corners. It would probably be for sail like cigarettes, with an added option of being available at certain regulated bars and clubs (I believe that's how it works in Amsterdam).

curious · Apr 21, 2009

deanhills said:
Maybe it is not completely "stupid". Imagine if it is free tomorrow, and kids at school obviously going for it in droves?

I suppose it would have to be handled the same way alcohol is, where abuses such as driving under the influence and causing a public nuisance and underage use are criminal.

deanhills · Apr 21, 2009

curious said:
I suppose it would have to be handled the same way alcohol is, where abuses such as driving under the influence and causing a public nuisance and underage use are criminal.

How would they be able to test whether you are under the influence of weed?

The Parakeet · Apr 21, 2009

Urine tests are fairly quick I believe (quick homemade ones are fairly quick at least...there are certain complications though, since you can't exactly make them give one on demand).

They could also just do a reaction time test. Wouldn't be hard to design one for that. If they are able to pass it high, then it's really not a big deal for them to be driving anyway.

Delta · Apr 21, 2009

The Parakeet said:
They could also just do a reaction time test. Wouldn't be hard to design one for that. If they are able to pass it high, then it's really not a big deal for them to be driving anyway.

The problem with that is... I'm sure a lot of older drivers would fail it. Would it be fair to charge a young driver for driving under the influence and let older drivers have a more lenient RT pass score if there really is no difference between RT capabilities of a high young driver and a older driver.

SISs (safe injection sites)

Similar threads