The ear man's "state of the union" speech

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
As I pointed out to you but you are intellectually incapable of grasping, the business world operates in the legal framework created by the government. The government has control. If the government establishes a framework that sets in motion the dynamics that cause a disaster, it's STUPID to blame those who operated in that framework. That's analogous to if a driver causes a fatal accident, you blame the car for it.

When they operate outside of that framework, the blame then goes to them too. There were SEC violations, there was fraud in the form of misrepresentations to investors, there was over-leveraging, and there were shoddy accounting methods. With the CDOs, to this day some of the mortgages are straight up lost! They don't know who owns what. There was also arguably fraud on the part of the credit rating agencies due to their clear moral hazard (where if they rated a security below AAA they would lose business). Just because the SEC and Fed failed to catch the crime (possibly because of lobbying too), does not mean Wall St. is not to blame. If a man shoots a victim with a gun do you blame the government because guns are legal or is the man still the criminal even if he was never prosecuted?

And either way, the framework was partly that way only because Wall St. LOBBIED to make it that way. I know you are anti-abortion because you think it is murder. Do you consider the anti-abortion lobby to hold some blame for the "murders"? If so, you should also consider the Wall St. lobby to hold blame for the very reason- they lobbied for part of the framework.

And allll that legal reasoning aside, there is a moral argument. Yes it is subjective, but privatizing gains based on extremely wild and risky activity that was NOT necessary (but only happened because the potential profits were higher while risk was passed on to taxpayers) while publicizing losses is arguably wrong just inherently. Kind of akin to those who think Paterno should have done more.

Edit: Related, this was in the news today- http://www.politicalfray.com/showthread.php?p=25158#post25158

Can you stop pretending that the banks are angels? It is tremendously shocking considering at the end of the day they have cheated both of us as taxpayers.
 
Dec 2011
322
0
Earth
I thoroughly enjoyed the speech. Sure, I would have preferred it to be less of a campaign speech, but for the most part it was good. Obama is a tremendous and motivating speaker, along the lines of JFK.

That said, I do take exception with some of his fundamental ideas presented in the SotU. If you listened closely, much of his proposed ideas involves more government. Lots and lots of additional government.

Being opposed to such actions and being in favor of less government involvement, Obama and I disagree on many issues, but I can not take away from the fact it was a terrific speech and one I greatly enjoyed.

Godwin's Law in 3, 2, 1...

Unfortunately, history shows this frequently has worked. Eg, Hitler during the Weimar Republic and the depression: all you Germans are poor because the rich jewish bankers ripped you off.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
I thoroughly enjoyed the speech. Sure, I would have preferred it to be less of a campaign speech, but for the most part it was good. Obama is a tremendous and motivating speaker, along the lines of JFK.

That said, I do take exception with some of his fundamental ideas presented in the SotU. If you listened closely, much of his proposed ideas involves more government. Lots and lots of additional government.

Being opposed to such actions and being in favor of less government involvement, Obama and I disagree on many issues, but I can not take away from the fact it was a terrific speech and one I greatly enjoyed.

Godwin's Law in 3, 2, 1...
I agree on the "a campaign speech" part. But the only thing he motivates me to do is vote for anyone but him. And believe me I know I will need to get past the smell to vote for one of the others. But I just need to do it.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
I agree on the "a campaign speech" part. But the only thing he motivates me to do is vote for anyone but him. And believe me I know I will need to get past the smell to vote for one of the others. But I just need to do it.

3rd parties. :D
 
Aug 2011
758
0
I thoroughly enjoyed the speech. Sure, I would have preferred it to be less of a campaign speech, but for the most part it was good. Obama is a tremendous and motivating speaker, along the lines of JFK.

I'm ENDLESSLY baffled by people who repeat this mantra. He looks all the way to the left teleprompter, then all the way to the right teleprompter- back and forth, back and forth. You get the feeling he's never looking at you in the eye. He has the condescending arrogance of someone who's had a free ride through life, which is what he's had. His speeches are LOADED with glittering generalities and economic ignorance, which he knows he can get away. When his teleprompters have failed in the past, he lapses into stuttering incoherence.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
He looks all the way to the left teleprompter, then all the way to the right teleprompter- back and forth, back and forth.
And I was mad because I thought he was watching tennis on a couple of little TVs!:p
 
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