The Inevitabe War within the Tea Party...

What will be the fate of the Tea Party by 2012?

  • Full break between its Libertarians and Social Conservatives

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Same as usual

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Will put forth a "Tea Party" (3rd party) candidate for President

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0
  • Poll closed .
Jan 2011
24
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With all of the momentum and influence that the Tea Party beast gained up to the election and the reaping of its major successes in the House, some began to already speculate as to whether this hot streak would continue afterwards. The inevitable battle within the Tea Party itself will reveal to us now, after the election, that it is a two-headed monster. This great divide within the movement will become even more visible once potential GOP candidates for the 2012 election are being discussed now in 2011. One side is the empowered Republicans, who clearly desire more conservatism in government as well as social issues that they aren?t seeing from more moderates or Democrats in power. And the other side is the Libertarians, who are traditionally much more conservative in regards to government size and almost totally liberal when on social issues. The key difference between the sides: the social and moral role of government?

Their common enemy was big government in terms of spending, social programs and taxes ? but what about Big Religion or Big Military Intervention Foreign Policy? Government intrusion into ambiguous moral stances that greatly divide our nation already such as homosexuality, abortion and stem cell research may be the trigger that breaks the Tea Party apart into its respective groups. Furthermore, traditional and yet marginalized Libertarians believe in a non-interventional foreign policy, often many of whom believe that we should bring ALL of our troops home immediately from everywhere in the world?

This break in ideological standing on issues of morality and foreign policy could force the hand of a Libertarian or traditional Republican to run for office as a third party candidate.

It is the most hardcore of the conservative Right that believes the only way to defeat the loony Left as represented by Obama, Reid and Pelosi is to fight them in all things ? social and fiscal. It is these same individuals within the ranks of the Tea Party which see the terrifying similarity on social issues between Libertarians and progressive liberals as a threat or opportunity for the movement to be overtaken or diminished in its power.
Why is it that social issues are always the undoing of any movement, campaign, or individual politician? Why can we not look at the big picture, especially in these times? Not that social issues such as civil rights, liberties, abortion, etc. must or should be trivialized; but these same issues can divide not only political parties, states, or grassroots movements but even teams, companies, and families. America?s diversity of races, ethnicity, economic status and personal needs make it utterly unfathomable to reconcile and gather unanimously under such topics.
If movements that have the mission of repelling or propelling large issues that affect everyone on a drastic level then go on to focus their efforts on greatly divisive social issues, than division within these movements is inevitable?

If the Tea Party wishes to continue on, it should remain only as it was founded ? a grassroots movement to halt reckless government growth and spending. If it begins to delve into the pits of sticky social issues than its primary initiative will be shattered by the obvious divide we all can already see will be a major fracture for the movement ? Libertarians versus social conservatives.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
Here in Kentucky the Tea Party already gave Mitch McConnell a wake up call. And it was badly needed.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
The Libertarians and Progressives have formed a coalition, HTH is the TP supposed to survive that unlikely Juggernaut?
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
The TP will be around for a while.:)

Sure, the KKK is still around too. Simply existing and actually being relevant are 2 different things. The TP is already losing steam as people slowly realize they're more about maximizing profits then actually helping people.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
Sure, the KKK is still around too. Simply existing and actually being relevant are 2 different things. The TP is already losing steam as people slowly realize they're more about maximizing profits then actually helping people.
Well I support the TP and am proud of it. All the name calling (KKK) does not change the fact that the Democrats and the Republicans are the ones guilty of getting this country into this mess. If we keep doing the same ol things, we will get the same results.:)
 
Jan 2011
24
0
Personally, I wonder if the TP would be as loud as it is if Bush were doing the same exact thing as Obama...Their saving grace in terms of integrity will be the Libertarians within the movement...
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
Personally, I wonder if the TP would be as loud as it is if Bush were doing the same exact thing as Obama...Their saving grace in terms of integrity will be the Libertarians within the movement...
I can not answer that question. I do know that I was ready to quit voting altogether until they came along. The republicans got completely off track there for awhile. I know some of the things the TP supports will hurt me personally. But I have watched the country I have loved and supported all my life turned into something almost unrecognizable. So be it TP or Libertarian I want this country to be what it can and should be. It would be nice if I lived to see it happen too.:)
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
Well I support the TP and am proud of it. All the name calling (KKK) does not change the fact that the Democrats and the Republicans are the ones guilty of getting this country into this mess. If we keep doing the same ol things, we will get the same results.:)

I didn't call the TP the KKK, genius. :p

Anywho, the TP platform doest actually make sense. Cut spending, fine. Cut what? The military (54% right there)? Nope. SS? Yes? What about your senior voter base? No? thought so. How about education? es? How are we going to fix the economy with an illiterate population?

Okay lets try social issues. Keep homosexual marriage illegal? What happened to libertarianism or respecting the will of the people? Repeal 'ObamaCare'? Wasn't it the Repubs idea? And why repeal it when most people want to make it stronger and add a public option? Mandate prayer in schools? What happened to following the Constitution?

I mean really, show me a TP argument that isn't a walking contradiction.
 
Aug 2010
862
0
The Libertarians and Progressives have formed a coalition, HTH is the TP supposed to survive that unlikely Juggernaut?

So the libertarians and socialists formed a coalition..... all ten of them?

anything w/Nader in the center is a thing to get away from

Libertarians have seen their "market share" dwindling for the past decade plus. Progressives are the people who think Obama didn't go far enough... juggernaut isn't the right description; tempest in a tea kettle is.

Sure, the KKK is still around too. Simply existing and actually being relevant are 2 different things. The TP is already losing steam as people slowly realize they're more about maximizing profits then actually helping people.

I suppose... murderers and rapists are still around and so are the liberals, progressives and socialists.

The efforts to paint the TP as racist yokels was successful only to leftists and confirmed the suspicions of large swaths of moderates that the MSM was in the tank for the left. The efforts to dismiss them as meaningless were also pretty dumb. The TP is in large part responsible for GOP gains. Interestingly enough though, their value was highest in support of GOP candidates rather than as TP candidates. The point, it is a broad coalition that can swing elections but not carry them.

The TP; here's what happens with grassroots populist revivals. They succeed in their initial purpose (effecting policy and elections) or they don't. If they don't they evaporate as any kind of meaningful force. If successful and they move a party to adpot their views they usually fold into that party's coalition because of shared political values. Some will be alienated and wonder off unlikely to have a home anywhere for a while. But, the group, here the TPP tends to dissolve as a distinct entity. There are exceptions but those are usually single issue ideological groups... often faith based. This last bit is why Obama and McCain trekked out to that dude's mega church... can't remember his name.
 
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Aug 2010
862
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Personally, I wonder if the TP would be as loud as it is if Bush were doing the same exact thing as Obama...Their saving grace in terms of integrity will be the Libertarians within the movement...


huh?

They reacted to Obama's and the Dems spending (the same thing the moderates did in 06 and 08 when they booted out the GOP for their atrocious fiscal management) and what they perceive as an assault on traditional American values; family, limited government, personal responsibility etc. This book really articulates the http://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/0805073396 situation. I'll save you the trouble of reading it. It investigates what liberal politico's regard as anomolous behavior. The anomoly is Kansas voters voting for republicans when they stand to benefit more economically by voting for Dems. Baffles the libs but these are "values voters." Whatever one thinks of the values of the TP they voted on them.

I can not answer that question. I do know that I was ready to quit voting altogether until they came along. The republicans got completely off track there for awhile.

Yes they did. Cost many of them their careers... rightly so.

Kind of interesting... the 04 06 and 08 elections are kinda, imo, all wainting elections. They know big change must come but not when.. we're not even sure we need to suck it up now (pay or default). The Dems tried w/healthcare but drafted such obviously unconstitutional enforcement mechanisms that many of us were more annoyed about the process of unwinding it taking a long time than worried it would fly. (Here's the court opinion from Commonwealth v Sebelius)

I know some of the things the TP supports will hurt me personally. But I have watched the country I have loved and supported all my life turned into something almost unrecognizable. So be it TP or Libertarian I want this country to be what it can and should be. It would be nice if I lived to see it happen too.:)

This ^ is exactly what I was getting at above. What's right and what may benefit me may not be the same. Values voters pick what's right (in their opinion of course) rather than what benefits them.
 
Aug 2010
862
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I didn't call the TP the KKK, genius. :p

That doesn't even rise to the level of sophistry

Anywho, the TP platform doest actually make sense. Cut spending, fine. Cut what?

Departments of:

Education
Homeland Security (and reorg enough to serve as a conduit between fbi & cia - - eliminate duplicative services)
Energy
Housing and Urban Development
Labor

for starters....

Defense will have to take a hair cut but militarize space so we can maximize the value of spy satellites and weapon bearnig satellites.. ramp up Humint and instead of costly and protracted wars work with democratic movements within antagonistic states. Drones drones drones. Maintain the fleet in order to be able to prevent any one else from doing anything with their navy that we don't want them doing. Encourage Japan to remilitarize and play a greater role in policing the east coast of Asia.


Politically very dangerous but necessary. Bump up age to collect and reduce benefits. Look into ways to make the benefits a needs based test. This will exclude, necessarily, millions of Americans who have no need of the extra income. This will slow the insolvency of the fund. Permanent fixing... who knows but we can buy time.

How about education? es? How are we going to fix the economy with an illiterate population?

The federal government does teach anyone (ok DC schools - worst in the nation). Teaching kids is a state issue. And even more narrow in many states.

Okay lets try social issues. Keep homosexual marriage illegal?

Another issue that should be at the sole descretion of the states.

What happened to libertarianism or respecting the will of the people?

Interestingly enough the 9th Circuit tossed out Prop 8 - a properly enacted voter initiated amendment because the Judge decided that the only basis to vote for Prop 8 had to be irrational. That is a pretty good example of liberals disrespecting the will of the people and of a judge agreeing and overstepping to an obscene degree

Repeal 'ObamaCare'?

Way more expensive than planned but more importantly it is unconstitutional.

Wasn't it the Repubs idea?

Repeal? Yes.

And why repeal it when most people want to make it stronger and add a public option?

Because most Americans don't want it.

Mandate prayer in schools? What happened to following the Constitution?

You'll have to find me an example of a politician of any party with any authority advocating mandatory prayer.

Following the constitution? Well, interestingly enough the Dems passed ObamaCare relying on the insterstate commerce clause. Insurance is purely INTRAstate in nature and not buying is not commerce. One would think that fairly obvious. The dems apparently didn't. I'm all about following the constitution but Congress wasn't.

I mean really, show me a TP argument that isn't a walking contradiction.

ObamaCare is too costly and is unconstitutional. How's that one?

Offer me a specific example of a TP plank (rather than some of these notions above that are not too well defined) and I'll give it a shot :)
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
I didn't call the TP the KKK, genius. :p

Anywho, the TP platform doest actually make sense. Cut spending, fine. Cut what? The military (54% right there)? Nope. SS? Yes? What about your senior voter base? No? thought so. How about education? es? How are we going to fix the economy with an illiterate population?

Okay lets try social issues. Keep homosexual marriage illegal? What happened to libertarianism or respecting the will of the people? Repeal 'ObamaCare'? Wasn't it the Repubs idea? And why repeal it when most people want to make it stronger and add a public option? Mandate prayer in schools? What happened to following the Constitution?

I mean really, show me a TP argument that isn't a walking contradiction.
Okay let's make it short and sweet. Most of them ran and were elected to do just what they are doing. As for "most people want to make it stronger and add a public option?, if that was true it would have been stronger and had the dang public option. It was all Democrat so they could have done it if they really wanted it. We all waited for that not doing things behind closed doors to happen. It all happened behind closed doors. Where was the "Constitution" when they stuck the "must have insurance" or be punished part in? If that is legal we won't have to worry about so called "homosexual marriage". They will just mandate it and stick it up our butts and tell us we "just don't understand" how smart they are and how right they are.:p Their arrogance gave birth to the TP. And so now they can live with it just like we have to live with their BS.
 
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