The irrational delusion of individual responsibility

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 3, 2010

Individual responsibility is a religious position to hold, that has no Truth-based legitimacy. It is a irrational, lie-based and delusional construct simply imposed by society.

There is no rational argument to support individual responsibility.

Further, there are very rational, structured and Truth-based arguments that show individual responsibility to be false.

Why, for example, should serial criminals be held personally responsible for their own actions? It just is not rational. The Forbidden Truth is that society is responsible, and the criminals are just created victims of that society.

The claim is made by society - its a positive claim. The burden of proof lies with those who make the claim that the irrational delusion of responsibility constitutes Truth. No legitimate evidence or legitimate argument has ever shown such.

deanhills · Mar 3, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
Individual responsibility is a religious position to hold, that has no Truth-based legitimacy. It is a irrational, lie-based and delusional construct simply imposed by society.

There is no rational argument to support individual responsibility.

Further, there are very rational, structured and Truth-based arguments that show individual responsibility to be false.

Why, for example, should serial criminals be held personally responsible for their own actions? It just is not rational. The Forbidden Truth is that society is responsible, and the criminals are just created victims of that society.

The claim is made by society - its a positive claim. The burden of proof lies with those who make the claim that the irrational delusion of responsibility constitutes Truth. No legitimate evidence or legitimate argument has ever shown such.

I'm beginning to see this too. I read something about the difference between our false selves and our true selves and how the false parts of us engage with arguments like these in order to manipulate and control. Like the whole process of Government where we get to get ID cards, licenses, birth certificates in exhange for giving away our rights and providing consent to be taxed. The Government consists of quite a number of premises and rules and regulations that are not really true, but for Government is important that we consider to be true, as without that "fairy tale" it would not have the people to trade with.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 4, 2010

deanhills said:
I'm beginning to see this too. I read something about the difference between our false selves and our true selves and how the false parts of us engage with arguments like these in order to manipulate and control.

This statement is too unclear to be answered.

Like the whole process of Government where we get to get ID cards, licenses, birth certificates in exhange for giving away our rights and providing consent to be taxed.

You are correct that by being a member of society that most legitimate rights are instantly and automatically lost, if that is what you are suggesting.

There is no consent involved, however. A child is born into human society without his consent. From that moment forward, taxes, lies, myth etc etc etc are simply foistered upon this victim.

The Government consists of quite a number of premises and rules and regulations that are not really true,

They are completely lie-based, utterly malevolent and deranged.

but for Government is important that we consider to be true, as without that "fairy tale" it would not have the people to trade with.

Society wants all its citizen-slaves to consider lies and myths to constitute Truth, and it has been successful. Only about one out of one hundred thousand humans can see through the lies of society.

deanhills · Mar 4, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
This statement is too unclear to be answered.

Our false selves would be those parts of our conscience that are engaged in politics for example where we buy into the process that society has imposed on us. Our true selves are our unique selves, unique gifts that some people never get to practice as they are too hamstrung with their false selves, i.e. work for example, and society's expectations and perceptions of them. Their identity is measured by society (false self), or measured by themselves through the eyes of society, not by themself (true self).

Seer Travis Truman said:
You are correct that by being a member of society that most legitimate rights are instantly and automatically lost, if that is what you are suggesting.

Yes, that is what I was suggesting. We get to focus on something that we are not. And then become that false something that we are not.

Seer Travis Truman said:
There is no consent involved, however. A child is born into human society without his consent. From that moment forward, taxes, lies, myth etc etc etc are simply foistered upon this victim.

I don't think consent is "real" either. It is something that is foisted on us to "order" us.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 5, 2010

deanhills said:
Our false selves would be those parts of our conscience that are engaged in politics for example where we buy into the process that society has imposed on us. Our true selves are our unique selves, unique gifts that some people never get to practice as they are too hamstrung with their false selves, i.e. work for example, and society's expectations and perceptions of them. Their identity is measured by society (false self), or measured by themselves through the eyes of society, not by themself (true self).

This statement is Truth-based and accurate. Indeed, most humans when they look into the mirror see not themselves, but what society told them they were. They spend their lives trying to be something society told them to be, that is not an accurate reflection of their True Reality.

Yes, that is what I was suggesting. We get to focus on something that we are not. And then become that false something that we are not.

Ok. Just making sure we are on the level.

myp · Mar 18, 2010

Addressing the opening post: so do you believe that no one should be held accountable for whatever they do?

Society does not completely make people the way they are. Even without an established society, we would still have murders and crime. If only society is to blame, then what causes those murders and crime? Or do you just not believe we would see such without a society?

Dirk · Mar 18, 2010

myp said:
do you believe that no one should be held accountable for whatever they do?

I thought the point was that they are not immediately to blame. And indeed, the vast majority of crimes have social causes.

Or do you just not believe we would see such without a society?

Such a system is a physical impossibility. It's a waste of time even speculating.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 27, 2010

I am a firm believer in individual responsibility. Society does not control who we become, but it does influence it. Ultimately we decide what we do and what we don't do. For example, there is a fast food restaurant on every corner tempting me to go inside and consume large quantities of fatty food. That's the influence of society. As a person who believes in individual responsibility, I choose not to go into those fast food restaurant on a daily basis.

The people who choose to ignore their own individual responsibility, and let society dictate who they are and who they become. Is no different then a small child who is dependent on their parents for all their needs. Further I feel that the whole movement against individual responsibility is just a cop out. It allows for finger pointing. McDonald's is why I'm fat, Corporations is why I'm poor, rich people are keeping me down. When often the finger one is pointing should be pointing at themselves.

We are a product of our own choices, and actions. Those who let society control who they are, are weak minded sheep. Often they look to the government to be their Shepard. Thus handing over a small portion of their freedoms for a false sense of security. A prime example would be trans fatty acids. We all know they are bad for us. I didn't need the government to ban them from being used in restaurants, for me to know that. Same with the seat belt law. I know it is far safer to use a seat belt, but as an adult living in a free society should have that choice. After all wearing, or not wearing a seat belt does not infringe on the rights or safety of others. Therefor the government should not be involved.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 30, 2010

SpayAndNeuterLibs said:
I am a firm believer in individual responsibility.

That is because you are hopelessly brainwashed by your lie-based society.

Society does not control who we become, but it does influence it.

That does not represent Truth. Society creates all its victims. Society creates you.

Ultimately we decide what we do and what we don't do.

I am not suggesting that we cannot make choices.

For example, there is a fast food restaurant on every corner tempting me to go inside and consume large quantities of fatty food. That's the influence of society.

The restaurant itself is not a "influence of society". However, society does promote the over-eating and causes of overeating as a form of self-harm.

As a person who believes in individual responsibility, I choose not to go into those fast food restaurant on a daily basis.

Does not matter.

The people who choose to ignore their own individual responsibility, and let society dictate who they are and who they become.

Society dictates to you what you are and what you become, you dont have the insight to see it. Example : society has deceived you into believing that the individual is blame for their own actions, whereas reason and Truth dictate otherwise.

Is no different then a small child who is dependent on their parents for all their needs. Further I feel that the whole movement against individual responsibility is just a cop out. It allows for finger pointing. McDonald's is why I'm fat, Corporations is why I'm poor, rich people are keeping me down. When often the finger one is pointing should be pointing at themselves.

That is a religious, lie-based and irrational position to take. Society wants you to blame yourself because societal leaders know that their system is responsible.

We are a product of our own choices, and actions.

That is not correct.

Those who let society control who they are, are weak minded sheep.

That is 100% correct. You fall into this category, like 99.99999%+ of humans do. I, as a Superior Seer of Forbidden Truths, do not fall into this category.

Often they look to the government to be their Shepard. Thus handing over a small portion of their freedoms for a false sense of security. A prime example would be trans fatty acids. We all know they are bad for us. I didn't need the government to ban them from being used in restaurants, for me to know that. Same with the seat belt law. I know it is far safer to use a seat belt, but as an adult living in a free society should have that choice. After all wearing, or not wearing a seat belt does not infringe on the rights or safety of others. Therefor the government should not be involved.

That has no bearing on what was said at all.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 30, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
That is because you are hopelessly brainwashed by your lie-based society.

That does not represent Truth. Society creates all its victims. Society creates you.

I am not suggesting that we cannot make choices.

The restaurant itself is not a "influence of society". However, society does promote the over-eating and causes of overeating as a form of self-harm.

Does not matter.

Society dictates to you what you are and what you become, you dont have the insight to see it. Example : society has deceived you into believing that the individual is blame for their own actions, whereas reason and Truth dictate otherwise.

That is a religious, lie-based and irrational position to take. Society wants you to blame yourself because societal leaders know that their system is responsible.

That is not correct.

That is 100% correct. You fall into this category, like 99.99999%+ of humans do. I, as a Superior Seer of Forbidden Truths, do not fall into this category.

That has no bearing on what was said at all.

Wow, the arrogance of your truly enlightened brain is amazing.

Good luck with that.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 30, 2010

SpayAndNeuterLibs said:
Wow, the arrogance of your truly enlightened brain is amazing. Good luck with that.

I have spoken, and all you can do is make cowardly and silly comments. Obviously you cannot think of any reason why individuals should have to answer to society. You refuse to face up to reality.

myp · Mar 30, 2010

Seer, how do you feel about murder? Should a person not be held fully responsible for murdering another if he/she did so intentionally?

Also, how far would you suggest we take this idea of blaming society for individual actions? Would it be to the fullest extent where no person is guilty because you think it is society's fault, or are you for some middle ground?

In my opinion such a world simply isn't plausible. People should be accountable for their actions because otherwise we would just have chaos.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 30, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
I have spoken, and all you can do is make cowardly and silly comments. Obviously you cannot think of any reason why individuals should have to answer to society. You refuse to face up to reality.

O.K. let me phase it this way. I'm not religious, so I will do my best to quickly explain my reasoning in a logical way. Without one having to answer to society. What other thing beyond ones conscious would keep the human race from spiraling down into chaos even faster then we are now?

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 30, 2010

myp said:
Seer, how do you feel about murder? Should a person not be held fully responsible for murdering another if he/she did so intentionally?

Also, how far would you suggest we take this idea of blaming society for individual actions? Would it be to the fullest extent where no person is guilty because you think it is society's fault, or are you for some middle ground?

In my opinion such a world simply isn't plausible. People should be accountable for their actions because otherwise we would just have chaos.

That covers it.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 31, 2010

myp said:
Seer, how do you feel about murder?

It is never a question of "feeling", it is a question of Truth. Murder acts undertaken by the individual for personal True Reality motivation are perfectly legitimate acts. Murder is simply an action.

I will explain via example what I mean by personal or True Reality based acts. See My website for what True Reality and Forbidden Truth mean.
An individual, such as Dennis Rader (BTK) is acting out his True Reality via personally motivated and driven murder actions. That is not to say that society has not played its part (it has), but that is incorporated into Dennis' True Reality. All Dennis is doing is accurately expressing this True Reality via his actions. Dennis has every Truth-based right to do so, and is not responsible to society for his actions.

Lets say that Dennis was conscripted to murder human being on behalf of society via the insane war ritual. Now Dennis is still not responsible, however here he may not be acting on his True Reality in a pure form.

Should a person not be held fully responsible for murdering another if he/she did so intentionally?

Society has no legitimate right or business judging or punishing any of its created victims. Most murderers intentionally murder. Lets take Ted Bundy. He should not be at all held "responsible" in the sense that he should have to answer for what he chose to do.

You could say that Victim Ted chose and is responsible for the murders in the sense that he carried them out, but there is no Truth-based legitimacy to the idea that Ted would be responsible in any other sense.

Also, how far would you suggest we take this idea of blaming society for individual actions? Would it be to the fullest extent where no person is guilty because you think it is society's fault, or are you for some middle ground?

The Truth is that it is all the way. Society is always 100% responsible.

In my opinion such a world simply isn't plausible.

It is, and such a world would be based on Truth. Wild animals live under these conditions. It is human society that has created all the trouble in the world. Of course, there will always be some dispute, violence etc, but this is a necessary minimum. Society has increased that thousands fold.

People should be accountable for their actions because otherwise we would just have chaos.

The current human societies on planet earth represent genocide, insanity, chaos and lies. That is the only legitimate form of chaos. Your argument here is basically an appeal to consequences fallacy.

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 31, 2010

SpayAndNeuterLibs said:
O.K. let me phase it this way. I'm not religious, so I will do my best to quickly explain my reasoning in a logical way. Without one having to answer to society. What other thing beyond ones conscious would keep the human race from spiraling down into chaos even faster then we are now?

Is is precisely because of the human condition that they spiral down into chaos. What you are basically doing is appealing to the consequences, and when those consequences are to dire for you to fathom and embrace, rejecting the initial Truth because it is too unbearable for you.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 31, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
Is is precisely because of the human condition that they spiral down into chaos. What you are basically doing is appealing to the consequences, and when those consequences are to dire for you to fathom and embrace, rejecting the initial Truth because it is too unbearable for you.

So do you believe people to be no more then self serving animals. Who because of the fear of societal and sociological excepted behavior we change who we are to fit society?

Seer Travis Truman · Mar 31, 2010

SpayAndNeuterLibs said:
So do you believe people to be no more then self serving animals.

This is badly put, and could be interpreted too many ways to make a detailed reply.

The Truth is that although this would be one of many acceptable and Truth-based states, humans are not just self-serving animals.

The human mind is diseased, it is ultra diseased.

Who because of the fear of societal and sociological excepted behavior we change who we are to fit society?

Look, this post is way too unclear. You need to go back and do it properly.

myp · Mar 31, 2010

How do you suggest the human population should exist? In what structure, if any? To say that no one is responsible for anything they do is nothing more than an excuse to blame society for one's problems and to relieve humans from the consequences of their actions. Let us remember that even in the wild where there is no comparable formal society, animals often end up facing the consequences for any good or bad choices they may make in their lives. It is how life works.

Seer Travis Truman said:
The human mind is diseased, it is ultra diseased.

How can you say it is diseased? You have no hard scientific evidence for this, so either you are misusing the term "disease" or you are making a claim without any support.

SpayAndNeuterLibs · Mar 31, 2010

Seer Travis Truman said:
This is badly put, and could be interpreted too many ways to make a detailed reply.

The Truth is that although this would be one of many acceptable and Truth-based states, humans are not just self-serving animals.

The human mind is diseased, it is ultra diseased.

Look, this post is way too unclear. You need to go back and do it properly.

I have no doubt that your philosophical intellect supersedes mine. Of course we as individuals have a choice. What is our constraint? Other then our own sense of right and wrong (a.k.a.) self accountability, that governs us? I agree, kinda, if a cloned individual was brought up in various conditions, the personality and moralities of said individual would differ. Is this sort of what you are getting at?

The irrational delusion of individual responsibility

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