Jan 2010
32
0
New York
Well I spend because I can.

Naturally, I'm being treated by a creditor, but. I'm still having to pay back what I spent at the end of the month/term.

The US needs to spend. Maybe if we spend wisely, people will take note that we're doing what we can and will just write off what we owe them. Sure, the odds are slim, but... we may never know unless we try. It'd be nice for China to write us off. :help:
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
It'd be nice for China to write us off. :help:


I think they're quite glad they can exercise some modicum of control over the US - if anything, they'd love to buy up more debt. Remember, the US Government is restricting imports from China, to keep them less economically powerful than them.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Maybe if we spend wisely, people will take note that we're doing what we can and will just write off what we owe them. Sure, the odds are slim, but... we may never know unless we try. It'd be nice for China to write us off. :help:
If only it were that easy. That is never going to happen :rolleyes:

As for spending- the real problem right now is not with a lack of consumer spending, but more so with an abundance of government spending.

I think they're quite glad they can exercise some modicum of control over the US - if anything, they'd love to buy up more debt.
Ehh... I wouldn't be so sure of that. China has become very wary of American debt as our government has continued to show no care for the value of the dollar. They have shifted strategies a bit and we can no longer expect them to buy any debt we hand them, unless we can prove we will maintain the dollar's strength.

Remember, the US Government is restricting imports from China, to keep them less economically powerful than them.
Protectionism always hurts the consumers and in the large scale, both economies. Who does it help? The domestic corporations who fight for it. Just more special interests.
Yet, today, I go to the theater and see a box "Made in China."

We're really restricting imports. :confused:
We shouldn't be restricting ANY imports or imposing ANY tariffs at all as they only hurt the majority of people- in both countries.
 
Jan 2010
131
0
Alaska
Well I spend because I can.

Naturally, I'm being treated by a creditor, but. I'm still having to pay back what I spent at the end of the month/term.

The US needs to spend. Maybe if we spend wisely, people will take note that we're doing what we can and will just write off what we owe them. Sure, the odds are slim, but... we may never know unless we try. It'd be nice for China to write us off. :help:


I can't tell if this is a joke or a serious comment.............

China owns about $740 Billion of the US debt, China's GDP is about $4.4 Trillion in 2008. China is in too deep with the US debt to forgive it. Its much more likely that they will do 2 things:
1 - use the debt to influence US policy (re. Hillary and Obamas trips to China, or more interestingly Geitners Q&A with students at Peking University)
2 - quietly and carefully sell some of the debt to a third party or back to the US (they are very concerned that the US will either monetize the debt away, or the US might get into real financial trouble (again, see Geitners Q&A with students at Peking University

Also, China only owns about 6% of the total US debt. The majority is owned by US citizens to the tune of $40,421 for each man, woman, and child in the US.

A more interesting fact is that there is only one nation that has a higher GDP than the US debt, and that nation is the US.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Also, China only owns about 6% of the total US debt. The majority is owned by US citizens to the tune of $40,421 for each man, woman, and child in the US.

A more interesting fact is that there is only one nation that has a higher GDP than the US debt, and that nation is the US.
Even more interesting (in my opinion :p) is that the total debt obligation per man, woman, and child when social security and medicare obligations are considered totals above $150,000. It is time to stop spending.
 
Mar 2009
2,188
2
Even more interesting (in my opinion :p) is that the total debt obligation per man, woman, and child when social security and medicare obligations are considered totals above $150,000. It is time to stop spending.
I get the feeling that all the brakes have gone, and that the US is hurtling towards an abyss. The debt has grown so fast, that not increasing the debt would create a disaster for the US. The bail-outs last year were a good test of how resistant the US is to buckling up.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
Ehh... I wouldn't be so sure of that. China has become very wary of American debt as our government has continued to show no care for the value of the dollar. They have shifted strategies a bit and we can no longer expect them to buy any debt we hand them, unless we can prove we will maintain the dollar's strength.

Oh, that's a good point. I mean, i was thinking about the influnce on US policy - especially economic policy. I was thinking maybe they would push for import restrictions to be abolished, so that Chinese goods have a larger market. Maybe even get the US to stop trying to get China to put the yuan up in value (since they're benefitting greatly from a huge export economy).

Protectionism always hurts the consumers and in the large scale, both economies. Who does it help? The domestic corporations who fight for it. Just more special interests.

I completely agree. My point was more that the US want to keep China economically inferior. Of course it will hurt US consumers - toys and a lot of electronic goods are very cheap to import and can be sold cheaply. On the other hand, it undercuts more local manufacturers, but it's helpful to stop them from getting too bloated, too.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
I completely agree. My point was more that the US want to keep China economically inferior. Of course it will hurt US consumers - toys and a lot of electronic goods are very cheap to import and can be sold cheaply. On the other hand, it undercuts more local manufacturers, but it's helpful to stop them from getting too bloated, too.
The primary reason behind protectionism is not keeping the other country inferior, it is to cater to domestic businesses. Sure free trade would mean more money for China, but it would also mean a better market in the United States. Both countries would benefit, so relatively the Chinese market wouldn't just jump up.

The idea that domestic manufacturers would be "undercut" or forced to cut jobs is very misleading, but it is the appeal that these companies use to try to get this legislation passed. In reality, even if a sector was unable to compete with a foreign market like the Chinese and was forced to cut jobs, the net job change in the country would likely not change much or maybe even grow because while jobs may be lost in one sector, the influx of goods and higher consumer demand will increase the demand for labor in other domestic markets. When you think of things like toys- that might be a shift from toy manufacturing to toy retail.

Steel is a heavily protected market under current United States' policy, but if free trade were allowed, we may lose steel manufacturing jobs in the US, but more firms would also demand steel at a lower cost. What do you think they will do with the steel? Build things of course, which means more jobs created. The high-tech market (computers, electronics, etc.) is a market that is not guarded by such protectionist policies and look at the outcome. American consumers are able to enjoy amazing new technologies created in places like Japan at relatively good prices. And yet, even without the protectionism, America remains a top company in the tech sector- just look at Silicon valley. Furthermore, we see a lot of jobs in America even from foreign companies like Motorola.

Protectionism is a form of corporatism that only hurts consumers in the long run. Free trade creates prosperity, protectionism doesn't. On a large scale, look at India and China before their current pushes towards capitalism- both nations had tremendously protectionist economies and both suffered from massive poverty and bad growth (relative to the more capitalist west.)
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
The primary reason behind protectionism is not keeping the other country inferior, it is to cater to domestic businesses. Sure free trade would mean more money for China, but it would also mean a better market in the United States. Both countries would benefit, so relatively the Chinese market wouldn't just jump up.

Well, i didn't say it was a smart or consistent policy. :p
 
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