Treasury plans to sell GM

Jun 2012
740
8
Stuart
The bailout in general in my eyes was stupid. We did not create that mess corporate America created the mess we were in. Then it is expected of us to help make it all better. the problem is that we are only putting bandaids on a bullet wound so to speak.

Car companies should not have been bailed out. Mortgage and Banks should not have been bailed out it was their greed that started this mess to begin with.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
With banks, etc. while moral hazard is a concern, so is systemic risk. It became in the best interest of possibly everyone to save the financial system- that is what's so scary about that particular sector.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Had the big three gone way...several hundred thousand jobs would have gone with them. In my opinion, a very good investment when these jobs were a major issue (remember).

If we take a loss on GM....chances are Chrysler profit made up for it in spades.
 
Jun 2012
740
8
Stuart
Had the big three gone way...several hundred thousand jobs would have gone with them. In my opinion, a very good investment when these jobs were a major issue (remember).

If we take a loss on GM....chances are Chrysler profit made up for it in spades.

Most of these jobs are over seas. GM still closed several plants in the US. It was not all the companies fault it went under. Unions had quite a bit to do with the American car companies fall from grace.

They inflated a pay scale through tactics the company could only bow down and take. It eventually cause their downfall and the loss of jobs.

They closed a plant down in the US and four months later opened it up in China

http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/6664

This will continue to happen because American Unions inflated the wage price to levels other countries can undercut.

So saving jobs did not make a difference GM even after the bailout cut jobs.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Most of these jobs are over seas. GM still closed several plants in the US. It was not all the companies fault it went under. Unions had quite a bit to do with the American car companies fall from grace.

They inflated a pay scale through tactics the company could only bow down and take. It eventually cause their downfall and the loss of jobs.

They closed a plant down in the US and four months later opened it up in China

http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/6664

This will continue to happen because American Unions inflated the wage price to levels other countries can undercut.

So saving jobs did not make a difference GM even after the bailout cut jobs.


Okay...we disagree
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Had the big three gone way...several hundred thousand jobs would have gone with them. In my opinion, a very good investment when these jobs were a major issue (remember).

If we take a loss on GM....chances are Chrysler profit made up for it in spades.

Who said you would lose more jobs if you let them fail? There was certainly value in some of those companies and brands- they would have gone through bankruptcy and someone would have picked up those assets. Just like you aren't going to see Hostess brands like Twinkies gone forever, you would not have seen Ford gone.

This sort of bailout is a moral hazard and creates a culture of carelessness- remember it was only a couple decades back that they were bailed out too.

The other thing is that even if we lost some of those brands or whatever- so what? The number of jobs they create in the US vs. what Toyota, etc, creates is not heavily in favor of GM. In fact, Cars.com does a list every year of the most "American" cars as judged by how much of the car and car parts are made in the US. The Camry has been number one for a while now- Toyota (and Honda) actually buy or build a lot of their parts domestically that GM outsources.

The only argument that might have some validity in my opinion (and that I have heard) is a potential fiscal shock that might result from such a collapse which could have been detrimental to the already weak economy. In that case I think there were still better solutions- keep more of the bankruptcy structure, but do it through government support over a longer period of time. In that case the Treasury might still have taken a hit, but we wouldn't have the moral hazard.

Oh one more possibly valid argument- American morale. They were American companies, we are American, whatever. I personally don't think it is worth the taxpayer burden and future risk to uphold car companies in the name of America, but some might I suppose.
 
Jun 2012
740
8
Stuart
Okay...we disagree

It's okay lol that is the name of the game disagreement. I would feel differently but I have had the privilege of being in a Union and being in a Non-Union. I was in a Healthcare Union when I first started working and though we got paid well above average what people don't understand it also raise the cost of Healthcare.

Though I started out lower in the Non-Union job as far as wage my benefits were better and i was able to move up within the company. I was a manager of the supplies department of the hospital before my accident. I have worked that type of job for 15 years.

Union were good at one time don't get me wrong but they are dinosaurs at this point. Do you believe Union's should hold sway in Federal Job's? I don't I look at it this way why should they make an average starting salary of 72,000 dollars which is the average according to a government study and get better benefits at the cost of my tax dollars.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
Just like you aren't going to see Hostess brands like Twinkies gone forever, you would not have seen Ford gone.

I'm going to have to nit pick here. We didn't bail out Ford. They were going strong and refused the money so of course we'd still have Ford. ;)
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
I'm going to have to nit pick here. We didn't bail out Ford. They were going strong and refused the money so of course we'd still have Ford. ;)

I stand corrected. My point still stands if you replace Ford with GM- perhaps more so.
 
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