US could arm Syrian rebels

myp · Feb 21, 2012

After a vicious raid by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces that took the lives of over 60 people, it looks like the US could be changing its position on getting involved in Syria.

The United States appeared to open the door to eventually arming Syria's opposition, saying that if a political solution to the crisis was impossible it might have to consider other options.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/22/us-syria-idUSL5E8DB0BH20120222

DodgeFB · Feb 21, 2012

myp said:
After a vicious raid by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces that took the lives of over 60 people, it looks like the US could be changing its position on getting involved in Syria.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/02/22/us-syria-idUSL5E8DB0BH20120222

I am against arming anyone. We have armed half the world already. And our soldiers end up being attacked with our weapons.

myp · Feb 27, 2012

DodgeFB said:
I am against arming anyone. We have armed half the world already. And our soldiers end up being attacked with our weapons.

Gun prohibition doesn't work

Bigger question is political and moral.

Comet · Feb 27, 2012

I caution for calling for a new government in Syria. May seem like a swell idea on the outside, but when you delve a little deeper into the situation their are red flags.

I will give you one reason we should be hesitant on wanting new leadership.

Egypt.

The Obama administration publicly called for Mubarak to step down and for new leadership. And they got it. Now we have Muslim Brotherhood sticking their snout into political office and attempting to be shot-callers.

And as bad as Mubarak was, he cannot hold a candle to the Muslim Brotherhood. At least with Mubarak, we know what we had. Matters could spiral out of control if the MB obtain power.

As the old saying goes, "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

If the MB do take control, the situation for the Coptics will become incredibly worse. In fact, if I was a Coptic, I would probably jump into the Mediterranean Sea and paddle for Greece.

David · Feb 27, 2012

Comet said:
I caution for calling for a new government in Syria. May seem like a swell idea on the outside, but when you delve a little deeper into the situation their are red flags.

I will give you one reason we should be hesitant on wanting new leadership.

Egypt.

The Obama administration publicly called for Mubarak to step down and for new leadership. And they got it. Now we have Muslim Brotherhood sticking their snout into political office and attempting to be shot-callers.

And as bad as Mubarak was, he cannot hold a candle to the Muslim Brotherhood. At least with Mubarak, we know what we had. Matters could spiral out of control if the MB obtain power.

As the old saying goes, "Better the devil you know than the devil you don't."

If the MB do take control, the situation for the Coptics will become incredibly worse. In fact, if I was a Coptic, I would probably jump into the Mediterranean Sea and paddle for Greece.

Egypt could take a page from Sudan's book and split the country into Islamic and Christian states.

DodgeFB · Feb 28, 2012

myp said:
Gun prohibition doesn't work Bigger question is political and moral.

True "Gun prohibition doesn't work" here. But as one that was shot at with my own gun, arming others is not always a good choice.

RoccoR · Feb 28, 2012

et al,

The US does not want to get involved. This is another no-win money pit.

If the Syrians wan a new government, let them work for it. Let them decide their own destiny.

Remember, President Assad has not fired a gun and not killed anyone. These Syrian Government Forces are Syrians. This is Syrian-on-Syrian. This is not a religious based contest. If the "Syrians" want a change, it is well within their ability to do so.

They don't need help of any kind from the US. If the US gets involved, it will just be one more example to the Arabs of American Intervention in the internal affairs of a Middle Eastern State. And if the Assad Government prevails, we will, once again, look like villains.

Most Respectfully,
R

DodgeFB · Feb 28, 2012

RoccoR said:
et al,

The US does not want to get involved. This is another no-win money pit.

If the Syrians wan a new government, let them work for it. Let them decide their own destiny.

They don't need help of any kind from the US. If the US gets involved, it will just be one more example to the Arabs of American Intervention in the internal affairs of a Middle Eastern State. And if the Assad Government prevails, we will, once again, look like villains.

Most Respectfully,
R

I agree we need to keep our nose out of this one.

myp · Feb 28, 2012

DodgeFB said:
True "Gun prohibition doesn't work" here. But as one that was shot at with my own gun, arming others is not always a good choice.

And standing by as innocent people are murdered might not also always be a good choice.

DodgeFB · Feb 28, 2012

myp said:
And standing by as innocent people are murdered might not also always be a good choice.

We can not save the world. Innocent people are dying all over the world. We get involved and still end up hated. We screw up and offend someone then they want us dead because we hurt their feelings. Well my feelings are already hurt, so I want us to stay out of it.

myp · Feb 28, 2012

DodgeFB said:
We can not save the world. Innocent people are dying all over the world. We get involved and still end up hated. We screw up and offend someone then they want us dead because we hurt their feelings. Well my feelings are already hurt, so I want us to stay out of it.

If another Hitler were alive today would you intervene or watch people burn in the concentration camps?

DodgeFB · Feb 28, 2012

myp said:
If another Hitler were alive today would you intervene or watch people burn in the concentration camps?

Right now I see many little Hitlers around the world. I might help them if they had the ability to appreciate the effort. I just don't see it there.

myp · Feb 28, 2012

DodgeFB said:
Right now I see many little Hitlers around the world. I might help them if they had the ability to appreciate the effort. I just don't see it there.

How can you say that? You really think the women getting raped multiple times everyday in parts of Africa or the parents whose children just got murdered in Syria really won't be thankful? You are confusing not getting absolute thanks with getting no thanks. Some people will be glad you went, others won't, that's how it is. The Nazis didn't "appreciate the effort" when we went to Germany, but the Jews sure as hell did.

DodgeFB · Feb 28, 2012

myp said:
How can you say that? You really think the women getting raped multiple times everyday in parts of Africa or the parents whose children just got murdered in Syria really won't be thankful? You are confusing not getting absolute thanks with getting no thanks. Some people will be glad you went, others won't, that's how it is. The Nazis didn't "appreciate the effort" when we went to Germany, but the Jews sure as hell did.

I can say that because we have had our turn at playing hero. Let someone else try on the cape.

And women will be raped in this country tonight. We are here and can't stop that either. There are limits to everyone and everything.

Look at who gets elected when they do get freedom.

myp · Feb 28, 2012

DodgeFB said:
I can say that because we have had our turn at playing hero. Let someone else try on the cape.

And women will be raped in this country tonight. We are here and can't stop that either. There are limits to everyone and everything.

That doesn't mean the discussion isn't worth having. There should be a push for a more global effort in bad cases yes, but in this case especially we are talking about giving weapons. It won't cost American lives, just some metal. Hardly a price to pay if we feel it is a moral obligation. I am not taking the side that we should do it, but the discussion is worth having.

And rape in America is nothing compared to those other nations. Not exactly a fair comparison.

DodgeFB said:
Look at who gets elected when they do get freedom.

Sure, let's do it. Remember that Japan, Germany, Italy etc. all count here too.

DodgeFB · Feb 28, 2012

myp said:
And rape in America is nothing compared to those other nations. Not exactly a fair comparison.

If you or one of your family are the one being raped it is more than fair. It has happened in my own family.

myp · Feb 28, 2012

DodgeFB said:
If you or one of your family are the one being raped it is more than fair. It has happened in my own family.

One rape is not equivalent to one thousand rapes. Rape is never right, but there is a difference. Statistically we will probably never completely eliminate rape (unfortunately), but we definitely can reduce it.

RoccoR · Mar 5, 2012

myp, DodgeFB, et al,

War is a seriously ugly business. Civil War, is even worse.

I don't think any sane individual doubts the scope and nature of the brutality in war. But, it is who they are and it is their destiny to choose.

No matter where you go in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region, the history is marred by the viciousness in which the indigenous population engages in abominable, hideous, odious, atrocious, and abhorrent manner in which they effect regime change. What you see is not unusual in their lands. This viciousness at which they go about this is heavily influenced by culture, attitudes, emotions, religious values, ethics, and ancient history which they believe is still relevant in the 21st Century.

This is, as expressed here, a struggle (Syrian-on-Syrian) that seems clear, cut'n'dry to us (Americans), but is actually a deep division in the Syrian Society. If it was so simple as the media, the Diplomatic Corps, and the Brain Dead Leadership in Washington seem to suggest, then the Syrian, as one people and one voice, would have already enacted change. But it is clearly not that simple. Not all Syrians want change and hence, the struggle.

America is an outsider. It is not our place to intervene and interrupt the normal course of Syrian development; as barbaric, bloodthirsty, and horrific as they make it. I can only imagine how damn proud the Ba'athist and the Government feel in the leadership they have shown that brings them to this outcome in history.

America must stay out of it. No matter which side America would choose to support, it will eventually come back to haunt us. Let the Syrians, as a people, demonstrate to the world just exactly how civilized they are.

Most Respectfully,
R

DodgeFB · Mar 5, 2012

RoccoR said:
myp, DodgeFB, et al,

War is a seriously ugly business. Civil War, is even worse.

I don't think any sane individual doubts the scope and nature of the brutality in war. But, it is who they are and it is their destiny to choose.

No matter where you go in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region, the history is marred by the viciousness in which the indigenous population engages in abominable, hideous, odious, atrocious, and abhorrent manner in which they effect regime change. What you see is not unusual in their lands. This viciousness at which they go about this is heavily influenced by culture, attitudes, emotions, religious values, ethics, and ancient history which they believe is still relevant in the 21st Century.

This is, as expressed here, a struggle (Syrian-on-Syrian) that seems clear, cut'n'dry to us (Americans), but is actually a deep division in the Syrian Society. If it was so simple as the media, the Diplomatic Corps, and the Brain Dead Leadership in Washington seem to suggest, then the Syrian, as one people and one voice, would have already enacted change. But it is clearly not that simple. Not all Syrians want change and hence, the struggle.

America is an outsider. It is not our place to intervene and interrupt the normal course of Syrian development; as barbaric, bloodthirsty, and horrific as they make it. I can only imagine how damn proud the Ba'athist and the Government feel in the leadership they have shown that brings them to this outcome in history.

America must stay out of it. No matter which side America would choose to support, it will eventually come back to haunt us. Let the Syrians, as a people, demonstrate to the world just exactly how civilized they are.

Most Respectfully,
R

I agree 100%. We have done enough damage to the US and to that part of the world. And it needs to stop.

myp · Mar 5, 2012

RoccoR said:
myp, DodgeFB, et al,

War is a seriously ugly business. Civil War, is even worse.

I don't think any sane individual doubts the scope and nature of the brutality in war. But, it is who they are and it is their destiny to choose.

No matter where you go in the Middle East and Persian Gulf Region, the history is marred by the viciousness in which the indigenous population engages in abominable, hideous, odious, atrocious, and abhorrent manner in which they effect regime change. What you see is not unusual in their lands. This viciousness at which they go about this is heavily influenced by culture, attitudes, emotions, religious values, ethics, and ancient history which they believe is still relevant in the 21st Century.

This is, as expressed here, a struggle (Syrian-on-Syrian) that seems clear, cut'n'dry to us (Americans), but is actually a deep division in the Syrian Society. If it was so simple as the media, the Diplomatic Corps, and the Brain Dead Leadership in Washington seem to suggest, then the Syrian, as one people and one voice, would have already enacted change. But it is clearly not that simple. Not all Syrians want change and hence, the struggle.

America is an outsider. It is not our place to intervene and interrupt the normal course of Syrian development; as barbaric, bloodthirsty, and horrific as they make it. I can only imagine how damn proud the Ba'athist and the Government feel in the leadership they have shown that brings them to this outcome in history.

America must stay out of it. No matter which side America would choose to support, it will eventually come back to haunt us. Let the Syrians, as a people, demonstrate to the world just exactly how civilized they are.

Most Respectfully,
R

Note that I am not making the argument to go in, but instead to send weapons, and that too should not necessarily be done, but be considered if (and only if) it is a matter of fighting a subjectively cruel and evil regime. If we as a world decided that we will stop genocide (as the UN has, although doesn't always take seriously) and we would stop another Hitler, then this question has to be re-answered for a case like Syria.

US could arm Syrian rebels

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