US students lag in math, science

Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Two new reports looking at 4th and 8th graders suggest that US students are lagging in science and math. This in particular caught my eye: "In the United States, only 7 percent of students reached the advanced level in eighth-grade math, while 48 percent of eighth graders in Singapore and 47 percent of eighth graders in South Korea reached the advanced level. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/11/e...-math-and-science-tests-show.html?ref=us&_r=0

Yip, kind of kept saying that repeatedly in another thread. Perhaps its because the big focus in schools is social bs and discipline.

Corrupt teachers unions, broken administration, super funding for silly games and stadiums for "students" that don't really have any real skill.

I worry with my spouse going into education in one of the worst states education wise in the nation.

Education in the states isn't as important as applied education so it seems reasonable that our schools are falling behind. In my state they make high school students take calculus! Who the hell uses calculus? Drop that crap, save it for college. That's like football class, we have that too.
 

myp

Jan 2009
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Are you serious? Dropping calculus does not solve the math problem :rolleyes:

The problem in my opinion isn't social "bs" as you put it, but just a system that is not rigorous enough, especially at the early years (and going on into the later ones). This goes to parenting too though- parents need to be more involved.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Over the last decades...many nations in the world have become more advanced, and entered the realm of first world nations. Though I do see our system as weak in many ways, there seems far more to it than that.
We can always do better, obviously. However, when the field of competition expands there will always be a lessening in standings.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Are you serious? Dropping calculus does not solve the math problem :rolleyes:

The problem in my opinion isn't social "bs" as you put it, but just a system that is not rigorous enough, especially at the early years (and going on into the later ones). This goes to parenting too though- parents need to be more involved.

So what first graders should be tought college level calculus?
 

myp

Jan 2009
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So what first graders should be tought college level calculus?

Did I say that? It should be a part of the curriculum though.

By the way, I did a quick search and number one on this list- Singapore- teaches calculus at age 15. The US doesn't until junior or senior year (17-18) and a lot of times not even that for kids who are behind.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Are you serious? Dropping calculus does not solve the math problem :rolleyes:

The problem in my opinion isn't social "bs" as you put it, but just a system that is not rigorous enough, especially at the early years (and going on into the later ones). This goes to parenting too though- parents need to be more involved.

I agree it isn't rigorous enough. But you nailed it by mentioning parents. Math takes practice. And it really is elegant, but it needs continuous reinforcement. I have a photo graphic memory so I only had to count out times tables once, but I am gifted in that regard, most people aren't. It us the home work that builds the practice. I realized thus when I got into higher maths and the steps were far more intricate. I actually had to do homework.

But without parents that care enough the child is almost completely doomed. Sad as it is I have dealt with parents that didn't teach anything to their kids directly.

But I think this is a larger problem with more effects on multiple levels. There is simply nothing we can do aside from parenting the children with uninvolved parents. It truly disturbs me when I see this. But that is another discussion for another thread.
 
Dec 2012
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0
Remember, the only way to make students succeed in education is to throw more money at the problem /sarc. Since the United States federal government got involved in education, the quality has gone down, the expense has soared and there have not been any results.

Perhaps the country should do what our beloved provincial premier did: lower the standards, which will lead statistics showing a dramatic improvement, all the while fooling the parents and children.
 
Dec 2012
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0
As I've rarely met anyone in school who likes math or science, I'm truly not surprised. Math isn't my best subject, either, but I'm pretty decent with science. I honestly expect English subjects to have much more of a lag for American students. When I was in school (I graduated high school in 2011) not many people read, much less knew grammar, or cared about English class. They tried more in math!

American schooling isn't nearly as good as a lot of other countries, no matter how you spin it.
 
Dec 2012
64
1
united states
I think the way we teach children is part of the problem. The Progressive education system seems designed to confuse kids and stress them out instead of inspiring them to learn. We have some private schools that are deviating from that method but the bulk of the children still go to public schools. If you think about it, the public school system, combined with the welfare state's reward of single parenthood has succeeded in producing uneducated citizens who mainly look to government to take care of them. See, Obama's "Life of Julia" video to see the cradle to grave mentality outlined, fairly well. I think this system has been in place for many decades, heavily influenced by John Dewey's ideas, as far as I can tell. As long as we cede education to government we will produce citizens that want and act to grow the government in order to receive more free stuff, such as the useless education they are getting. We will continue to discourage the learning math and critical thinking skills, too. It is my hope that we have not passed the tipping point and reason will return in education. One ray of hope is the amount of people who self-educate, these days, with all the online resources available. As for the masses, let them eat progressive poison and fall further behind.
 
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Jan 2012
1,975
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Texas
Remember, the only way to make students succeed in education is to throw more money at the problem /sarc. Since the United States federal government got involved in education, the quality has gone down, the expense has soared and there have not been any results.

Perhaps the country should do what our beloved provincial premier did: lower the standards, which will lead statistics showing a dramatic improvement, all the while fooling the parents and children.

Once the government touches something its ruined. They have the anti Midus touch. Its because they hire retards.

They should reward teachers who are good at their jobs, not promote people who just have been there longer.

Something I noticed was public school beats college into the heads of students. As if that was the golden key to a brighter future. I wish I knew this when I was in high school my English teacher kept going on and on about how you have to go to college to make any money, I was making more than she was and I loved my job, plus I had the added bonus of not having 35 grand in debt. I make more money than my brother with a masters degree more than my father did before he owned a company. I really don't think college is the answer anymore. If you want to be a doctor or a lawyer perhapse. But I keep ruining into exterminators and ac/heater tradesmen that left jobs like those to earn more money. Meet Assn exterminator with a backless in chemistry, makes twice the money killing roaches.

I really think the issue with public schools is outdated thinking. Blue caller doesn't mean broke anymore. White caller doesn't mean wealthy either.

I remember in school they wanted us to read books, awful books like the great gadspy , great expectations and so on. I read one really good scifi book in eight grade called the giver, it was excellent I was captivated and interested. This was saying a lot because at the time I wad reading at a third grade level. I hatred and frankly refused to read anything in high school yet I passed. College was different, I want assaulted by garbage, the material was fascinating, I excelled at reading and righting, math skills were always great but I even found mathematics to be elegant and beautiful. I wanted more. If we could get people to want more in high school these issues would go away. But a lot of it has to do with maturity. But it also ha to do with standardizing tests. I remember most of the curriculum was how to pass the state tests. I may not know the subject but I know how to ace the tests.

It should be treated much like college, merit based academic achievement, go to each class twice a week get rid of mandatory minimum hours.

The system is entirely broken, my bf tells me I have no faith in the system
 

myp

Jan 2009
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Once the government touches something its ruined.

So you are an anarchist?

As for college v. high school- the numbers still heavily favor college ;) And moreso moving forward.

Oh and the Great Gatsby is a GREAT book. A classic. One of my favorites. It is only your opinion that it is awful- most of the literary world disagrees. :p
 
Jan 2012
1,975
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Texas
So you are an anarchist?
Hurt yourself jumping that that nonsense, it isn't really a conclusion because you just plucked it out of thin air.

This isn't even good hyperbole.


As for college v. high school- the numbers still heavily favor college ;) And moreso moving forward.
So that means everybody should go to college waste four years and go into debt and then start a career not linked to college.

College isn't for everybody. I just really wish people would realize that.


Oh and the Great Gatsby is a GREAT book. A classic. One of my favorites. It is only your opinion that it is awful- most of the literary world disagrees. :p


Further more the "literary world has terrible taste". So they can go to hell, what are you trying to prove with this, that your opinion is better than mine because its the same as everybody else's? Jesus Christ get a life
 
May 2012
215
37
The motherland
Asian students generally do better in math than other racial groups because there is a tradition of using the abacus and advanced students can calculate very quickly even without using it and primary school students spend many hours learning math outside school in that process and studies also show that white Americans generally perform as well as their European peers in math and science and America's education problem is only relevant to low-performing schools.
 
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May 2009
225
0
USA
In school you were taught that "two plus two equals four". However, this basic arithmetic - which worked with consistent regularity in the classroom - breaks down immediately when applied to the affairs of men where you are confronted with the confounding fact that two plus two equals five, or only three (depending on one’s investment counselor or tax advisor); and according to Congress, the actual sum may amount to several billion (depending on how you "crunch the numbers"). But now the nation is facing a financial crisis, and people are demanding an accounting. You listen in dumb amazement to the news of the Chairman of the Federal Reserve and Secretary of the Treasury testifying before Congress on the need for "fiscal conservatism." (What does that add up to?) Anxious for some reassurance, you punch up two plus two on your pocket calculator; but in your hurry you press the wrong function key and make an error. You reflect on life’s contradictions: Why didn’t they teach that in school?
 

myp

Jan 2009
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clax, I don't know why you get so angry. You make absolute statements in which you say things that you don't even mean and then get mad when someone extrapolates that statement to a statement which would be considered true under it ("the world has terrible taste" being another one- maybe you belong on another planet :p) .

It's the holidays. Cheer up!
 
Dec 2012
23
0
Nova Scotia Canada
School is hard and i find that in most cases teachers and parents just dont seem to care anymore. When i was in school as soon as i got home it was homework before play, now it seems that the children get to play and then watch tv or even both before the mention of homework is even said. Parents are too busy for their children which in turn is making the children not get the added focus when they get home. as well i believe that the teachers have way to much on their plates and can no longer enjoy their job and help the children that need the help because they have to stick to the curriculum. It is so hard to see children struggle but not be able to get the help they need because no one seems to have the time.

I think one of the biggest problems we are having currently is we are having way to many babies having babies, and then we go and make television shows about them so their babies think it is ok to have more babies hahah

I did not in any way mean to offend anyone with my thoughts, and it is not by any means meant against all teachers and parents
 
Jan 2012
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Texas
clax, I don't know why you get so angry. You make absolute statements in which you say things that you don't even mean and then get mad when someone extrapolates that statement to a statement which would be considered true under it ("the world has terrible taste" being another one- maybe you belong on another planet :p) .

It's the holidays. Cheer up!

I explain it over and over and over again its like talking to a child. I have a14 year old that gets it.

You make up crap and then you say I say it.

Its pathetic, childish and ridiculous.

That's and then you don't understand why I get forceful with you, you need forcing not to jump to stupid conclusions.

Lets really stop the disrespect. You do t this one more time that is how I an going to treat you. The one time I did it to you you were upset.

I can't make this any more clear, I don't say things that I don't say. No means no, don't means don't. Some simple first grade grammer will make that obvious.

Why I really get angry is your lies. You say you want civil debate, yet your actions make you're statements into lies. It isn't civil to cram words that nobody said into their mouths and pretend that it wasn't clear. I often wonder if English is you first language.
 

myp

Jan 2009
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50
clax, no one is being disrespectful to you- you are the one calling people's arguments dumb and saying how some things are so easy to understand that dogs can but we can't. I am not being disrespectful to you so I am not going to apologize. Read what I said. Extrapolating your statement, if everything the government does is ruined, then one by one you would presumably dismantle all policies since they ruin something. Eventually you get to the point where you dismantle the policy that defines the government itself and you get to a position of anarchy. Maybe you should stop being so sensationalist and making all these bold, generic statements if you don't want people to draw conclusions like that from it. After all, you said it, not me. Anyone who is not an anarchist probably does not believe everything the government touches is ruined. But you said it does- what other conclusion should a logical person draw?
 
Jan 2012
1,975
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Texas
clax, no one is being disrespectful to you- you are the one calling people's arguments dumb and saying how some things are so easy to understand that dogs can but we can't. I am not being disrespectful to you so I am not going to apologize. Read what I said. Extrapolating your statement, if everything the government does is ruined, then one by one you would presumably dismantle all policies since they ruin something. Eventually you get to the point where you dismantle the policy that defines the government itself and you get to a position of anarchy. Maybe you should stop being so sensationalist and making all these bold, generic statements if you don't want people to draw conclusions like that from it. After all, you said it, not me. Anyone who is not an anarchist probably does not believe everything the government touches is ruined. But you said it does- what other conclusion should a logical person draw?

nothing I ever said could leaf anyone to believe I was an anarchist, this is an absurd accusation of pure disrespect mainly because out is sensationalism on your part, I am a theist, I can't be an anarchist. This is demonizing piss poor rhetoric and distasteful and disrespectful on your part.

And your arrogance in pretending you didn't do what you did and KNEW YOU DID is insulting to my intelligence. Your act is old. Your game is transparent.

The government succeeded at nothing, how is that congruent over through all government. I disrespect you because you don't understand language
 
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