What is God?

myp · Nov 11, 2012

Logic is not subjective.

Science is not a vocation.

And I never said I apply the scientific method to everything, but merely to facts based matters.

And man is illogical sometimes because of the science of how our brain works and evolved

(see Dan Ariely's Predictably Irrational or a large body of other work by various neuroscientists, behavioral economists, and psychologists)

clax · Nov 11, 2012

myp said:
Logic is not subjective.

Science is not a vocation.

And I never said I apply the scientific method to everything, but merely to facts based matters.

And man is illogical sometimes because of the science of how our brain works and evolved (see Dan Ariely's Predictably Irrational or a large body of other work by various neuroscientists, behavioral economists, and psychologists)

science is absolutely a vocation, how is it not?

if you only apply the scientific method to fact based matters why do you make an exception for God, it clearly is not a fact based matter?

myp · Nov 11, 2012

The existence of something is a facts based matter.

And science is a way of thinking. I can't really explain it well, but see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science It is not a vocation.

clax · Nov 11, 2012

myp said:
The existence of something is a facts based matter.

And science is a way of thinking. I can't really explain it well, but see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science It is not a vocation.

The belief in somethings existence is not a fact based matter.

What is science's purpose?

myp · Nov 11, 2012

clax said:
The belief in somethings existence is not a fact based matter.

Of course it is. The answer is a fact. In the God question it is either yes, God exists or no, God does not. That is fact based. It is not a question like "what is your favorite color?"

tecoyah · Nov 11, 2012

clax said:
science is absolutely a vocation, how is it not?

if you only apply the scientific method to fact based matters why do you make an exception for God, it clearly is not a fact based matter?

Science is a concept, and a way of verifying reality. Thought there are certainly vocational opportunities within the various fields the fields themselves and the concept are not a job.

As for applying the sciences to the issue of a God...I believe you may have decided to request proof it did not exist. There can no proof of anything without observation, research and experiment....thus science.

clax · Nov 11, 2012

myp said:
Of course it is. The answer is a fact. In the God question it is either yes, God exists or no, God does not. That is fact based. It is not a question like "what is your favorite color?"

You omitted the word believe. It is not a question of dose God exist, it is a question of weather you believe God exists.

you say I should have verifiable evidence to believe something, that is illogical

myp · Nov 11, 2012

clax said:
You omitted the word believe. It is not a question of dose God exist, it is a question of weather you believe God exists.

you say I should have verifiable evidence to believe something, that is illogical

You really don't understand what I am saying, do you? I am saying that if you are to take a SCIENTIFIC standpoint, you cannot believe for the sake of believing.

clax · Nov 11, 2012

myp said:
You really don't understand what I am saying, do you? I am saying that if you are to take a SCIENTIFIC standpoint, you cannot believe for the sake of believing.

From a scientific standpoint, no. But a scientific standpoint isn't the only valid standpoint.

I have repeatedly stated that there is no science in belief, you made this point many times. It has been been addressed.

myp · Nov 11, 2012

clax said:
From a scientific standpoint, no. But a scientific standpoint isn't the only valid standpoint.

I have repeatedly stated that there is no science in belief, you made this point many times. It has been been addressed.

My whole point this whole time if that you are being hypocritical if you are thinking scientifically and believe in God. That is all I ever said.

clax · Nov 11, 2012

myp said:
My whole point this whole time if that you are being hypocritical if you are thinking scientifically and believe in God. That is all I ever said.

I agreed three pages ago. Nobody thinks scientifically all the tome, they really only do when it is necessary. I don't have to abandon my belief completely to understand only things that can be proven, can be proven. That was my point this entire time.

myp · Nov 11, 2012

clax said:
Nobody thinks scientifically all the tome, they really only do when it is necessary.

They absolutely do (or at least know/think they should). On facts based matters such as the God question.

clax · Nov 11, 2012

myp said:
They absolutely do (or at least know/think they should). On facts based matters such as the God question.

The God question isn't really science. It is a question of belief. Since there is no evidence either way.

tecoyah · Nov 12, 2012

There does seem to be evidence making it quite clear the basis for a christian God is invalid, based on the book(s) used to form said belief.

Many have expressed the issues involved in proving a God exists, and also the pointless pursuit of discussing faith in science. As you yourself have stated:

" God is the answer to why. Science can tell us how things come to exist, and what steps made them possable. But it can not tell us why."

God is obviously YOUR answer as to why...we call that faith. Science is MY answer as to why and is constantly being created.

clax · Nov 12, 2012

tecoyah said:
There does seem to be evidence making it quite clear the basis for a christian God is invalid, based on the book(s) used to form said belief.

Many have expressed the issues involved in proving a God exists, and also the pointless pursuit of discussing faith in science. As you yourself have stated:

God is obviously YOUR answer as to why...we call that faith. Science is MY answer as to why and is constantly being created.

science can't answer some questions

tecoyah · Nov 12, 2012

clax said:
science can't answer some questions

I think that is the point myself and others have been trying to express. To use your own belief, lets ask "Why"?

Science deals with the tangible, those things our senses are capable of defining. Belief cannot be tested, verified, or in any way defined as a physical property.
Basically, the way scientific thought functions, a God MUST be dismissed as hypothesis...as there is no path to theory.

myp · Nov 12, 2012

clax said:
The God question isn't really science. It is a question of belief. Since there is no evidence either way.

You can ask the God question scientifically. I have done it as I have explained here. You can also ask the God question in other ways just as you can with any other question- maybe something like "what is most comforting to me?"

But my whole point here is when you ask it scientifically, you can't believe in God. So don't say you can't ask the God question scientifically or it doesn't make sense to do so- because it absolutely does. And if you understood the process through which science determines fact you would realize that.

ThirdTerm · Nov 12, 2012

I once tried to write a graduate thesis on what God meant for the ancient Greeks who gave rise to Western civilisation and the concept of God has existed throughout history to rationalise unexplainable natural phenomenons for ordinary human beings. Nature worship is the most fundamental form of religion, which was what the ancient Greeks practiced and the Neanderthals are known to have practiced the earliest form of animal worship, whom we owe 1-4% of our DNA make-up and we all have a deep-seated desire to worship what we find in nature because of our ancient heritage.

clax · Nov 12, 2012

myp said:
You can ask the God question scientifically. I have done it as I have explained here. You can also ask the God question in other ways just as you can with any other question- maybe something like "what is most comforting to me?"

But my whole point here is when you ask it scientifically, you can't believe in God. So don't say you can't ask the God question scientifically or it doesn't make sense to do so- because it absolutely does. And if you understood the process through which science determines fact you would realize that.

Scientifically speaking out is unknown, there is no conclusive data either way. So scientifically you can believe whatever you want. Science isn't about belief, belief isn't about science. one is about what a person wants, and thinks the other is a process using math an language to define an observable existance.

You can't scientifically believe anything, that notion is contradictory.

clax · Nov 12, 2012

tecoyah said:
I think that is the point myself and others have been trying to express. To use your own belief, lets ask "Why"?

Science deals with the tangible, those things our senses are capable of defining. Belief cannot be tested, verified, or in any way defined as a physical property.
Basically, the way scientific thought functions, a God MUST be dismissed as hypothesis...as there is no path to theory.

When you are applying science to a subject or question, you have to think objectively, so God has no place in science, I have stated that several times. hypotheses must exclude God, I agree with that too. I said that repeatedly. Personal beliefs are not involved in science, that is a two way street. If they are not involved then they can't be when a scientist believes in God, I know three that do.

That is all I am saying, there is room for people, because nobody is completely rational, nobody is objective, everybody is biased.

What is God?

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