What is God?

Nov 2012
174
1
Salt Lake City, Utah
Zoomer, clax, myp, et al,

PREFACE: You can believe in the "supernatural" and still be a scientist that studies the fundamental forces of nature. You just cannot use "belief" as proof or evidence.

Absolutely. I wasn't trying to say a "scientist can't believe in a god". Of course everyone can believe whatever they want to. I was just trying to establish that science has no basis for recognizing the existence of a god.

The "Hand of God" has just as much validity as "String Theory." R

Not to "science" it doesn't. There is no scientific theory (or assumption) that a god is responsible for the big bang. String theory, on the other hand, is an established (not proven) theory. So (to science), they don't carry the same validity (yet!).

We're living in some really interesting times. There ARE now theories emerging that suggest our universe is but a "cell" in a living organism/entity. I find that WILD! Could we possibly be on track to finding out where we "fit" in the relative nature of the cosmos? Cool stuff!

Again, R, Please keep posting~ I have a lot to learn from you :D
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Zoomer, clax, myp, et al,

PREFACE: You can believe in the "supernatural" and still be a scientist that studies the fundamental forces of nature. You just cannot use "belief" as proof or evidence.


(COMMENT)

I can be a scientist that promotes the knowledge gained through the studies of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics; and all we've learned up to 10^(-43) seconds before the "Big Band" (the Cosmological Inflation of the Universe). But there is no science (yet) that can explain (even remotely) where the original energy came from to start "the beginning."

The "Hand of God" has just as much validity as "String Theory."

Most Respectfully
R
I agree completely, thank you for showing respect.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Absolutely. I wasn't trying to say a "scientist can't believe in a god". Of course everyone can believe whatever they want to. I was just trying to establish that science has no basis for recognizing the existence of a god.

No Zoomer you were not saying that myp was.



Not to "science" it doesn't. There is no scientific theory (or assumption) that a god is responsible for the big bang. String theory, on the other hand, is an established (not proven) theory. So (to science), they don't carry the same validity (yet!).

I agree completely

We're living in some really interesting times. There ARE now theories emerging that suggest our universe is but a "cell" in a living organism/entity. I find that WILD! Could we possibly be on track to finding out where we "fit" in the relative nature of the cosmos? Cool stuff!
Part of the study of the universe that fascinates me are the endless possibilities.


Again, R, Please keep posting~ I have a lot to learn from you :D
I agree, it its amazing the people you meet on the Web sometimes
 
Dec 2012
14
0
Charleston, WV
I saw a film yesterday.. Alefbay-e Afghan (The Afghan Alphabet)..
A simple question there: "What is God.."
No matter what your religion is please feel free to answer..


God is a metaphor for that which transcends all levels of intellectual thought. It's as simple as that.
Joseph Campbell

I believe what Joseph Campbell put so eloquently. The burden of proof is always on the person of faith. If you look at science, he is a metaphor.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Well, smarter, is a relative term. I find it extremely arrogant of some people to assume I don't understand things based on my particular out look, but the problem with arrogance is it isn't perceived by the people suffering from it.

Thus....mankind created the sciences, leading to established fact.

Limiting the relative nature of opinion.
 
Dec 2012
14
0
Charleston, WV
Thus....mankind created the sciences, leading to established fact.

Limiting the relative nature of opinion.
If you are saying that science is truth and religion is faith based, then I agree with your statement. To me, faith is a blind belief without proof. I'm not saying there is no God. I'm saying "I don't know".
 
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Dec 2012
14
0
Charleston, WV
If you are saying science is proof and religion is faith, then I agree with your statement. To me, faith is blind belief. I'm not saying that I know there is no God. I am saying "I don't know".
 
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Dec 2012
23
0
I don't think of God as a physical being, more of an ideal. A supreme power, if you will, but not an actual person who exists living up on a cloud somewhere, watching over us. Believe he created us or whatever, but he's still an ideal. Spirit, if you will.
 
Aug 2010
211
12
Reynoldsburg, OH
Zoomer, Clax, et al,

In science, we have a philosophy (much like religions have a theology). Each of these have a "sine qua non", a condition "without which there is nothing." In the statement I made below, that condition is "testability."

The "Hand of God" has just as much validity as "String Theory."
Not to "science" it doesn't. There is no scientific theory (or assumption) that a god is responsible for the big bang. String theory, on the other hand, is an established (not proven) theory. So (to science), they don't carry the same validity (yet!).
I agree completely
(COMMENT)

  • STRING THEORY:
Without "testability" or the ability to move the theory to the practical realm of the physical world, make a prediction, devise a test, conduct the experiment, and compare results to the prediction, --- if you cannot execute the "scientific method" --- that is the "sine qua non" --- THEN, it is not science. Putting aside Supersymmetry (an advanced Pythagorean concept), Maldacena Duality (an advanced Holographic concept), and attempting to measure Extra Dimensions (an advanced spacial awareness concept), all of which might further support the String Theory, but not prove it, no one can really figure out a way to test string theory.

The theory then becomes an very interesting intellectual endeavor that has some compelling logic to it, supporting documentation with it, but is only conceptual in its reality.​

  • HAND OF GOD: (Excluding the VMAT-2 Gene)
The theory of a Supreme Being (SB) is an undefined quantity. It is extremely hard to get anyone to agree on a set of universally accepted definition, characteristics and qualities of an SB. Because of this, no real Hypothesis can be put forth that can be developed, no real and valid Test of the un-agreed upon Hypothesis developed, and no real analyze of Data can be performed upon which to draw a universally accepted set of conclusions.

Again, the theory of an SB then becomes an very interesting intellectual endeavor that has some compelling logic to it, supporting documentation (theological doctrine) with it, but is only conceptual (requiring spiritual or supernatural constructs) in its reality.​

There is a theory, that no impasse remains forever. That at some point, all problems have a solution. At some point, it may be possible to test the untestable of today.

When I say that both are equally valid today, I mean that both are equally untestable in a fashion that produces the desired results; efficacious in a manner that becomes unassailable by any party to the debate.

Equally true is the fact that both concepts (String Theory & Hand of God) containing premises from which the standing conclusions may logically be derived - rendering an intellectual understanding the individually can be understood, yet collectively arguable as to the details. Neither concept has been disproven because of the testability issue, rendering (again) a certain similar quality.

When one says: "So (to science), they don't carry the same validity (yet!)." It implies that one theory has an advantage in the "scientific method" process over the other. I would advance the idea that this is untrue; that there is NOT - by any objective measure - a means of consistently and accurately putting each theory to a test that gives one an advantage over the other (excluding the Saint Thomas Aquinas challenge in "The Argument from Motion" or the derivative Aristotelian regressive argument on the origin of first motion in the universe). If we were not to exclude the challenges, then the "Argument of Motion" would ask, "except for the Hand of God, where did the energy of the "String" originate? That would give a decisive advantage to the opposing theory.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Thus....mankind created the sciences, leading to established fact.

Limiting the relative nature of opinion.

Fact and opinion are not really I'm the same wheel house. You may be able to prove something is yellow.

You can't apply fact to my favorite color being yellow.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Fact and opinion are not really I'm the same wheel house. You may be able to prove something is yellow.

You can't apply fact to my favorite color being yellow.

Except the answer to the God question isn't an opinion. It is a fact- either God exists or does not. We do not have the means to prove it yet, but that doesn't mean the question becomes opinion. Scientifically, you have to say you are not sure- you are agnostic. Then on top of that you can have an opinion of whatever you like, but if you are trying to answer the question based on the facts- the answer and the only answer right now is, "I don't know".
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Except the answer to the God question isn't an opinion. It is a fact- either God exists or does not. We do not have the means to prove it yet, but that doesn't mean the question becomes opinion. Scientifically, you have to say you are not sure- you are agnostic. Then on top of that you can have an opinion of whatever you like, but if you are trying to answer the question based on the facts- the answer and the only answer right now is, "I don't know".

Based on spirituality it is an opinion.
 
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