With the rising violence in Mexico, what do you guys think about how it is going to effect us? I am actually supporting the money and equipment we are giving the Mexican government. A civil war in an already-deteriorated Mexico is the last think we need. Imagine a quarter million refugees streaming across our border. It would completely overwhelm the border security guards and create a diplomatic nightmare. Not to mention the humanitarian crisis.
Agreed. Especially now with the drug wars on top of everything, and corruption everywhere the US Government probably needs to pay close attention. Think it is important that it addresses the real problems with the Mexican Government instead of harassing the Mexicans who have managed to make their way to the United States. More than hand-outs to the Mexican Government it probably needs special programmes of the kind that involves more than just financial packages.
What we need to do is protect our borders by placing our troops on it. We need to start bringing our troops home and putting them on the border here. We really can't afford to fund another war, but we can cut spending overseas and at the same time protect our own borders by doing this.
Winds of Change
Did you see the story a couple of weeks back where a landowner on the border was being sued, along with the county sherrif, for holding illegal aliens at gunpoint for crossing his land and calling Homeland Security (old Border Guards) to pick them up?
They claim he menanced them and put them in fear of their lives, even threatening to set his guard dog on them. A Mexican-American(?) legal aide group took up the cause and filed a case against the landowner.
So, it sounds to me that the direction that things are going is that we should have lemonaide and snacks ready for them, not the armed guards. I mean, who do we think we are, wanting to enforce our notions on visiting foreigners (okay, that last bit is dripping with sarcasm).
I think that the USA needs foreign workers and we should implement a real workers pass or visa for them that makes sense. It should be easy to get and come with real consequences if abused. If there was an easy legal way to come to the USA to work, we would have a lot less problem with illegals.
Did you see the story a couple of weeks back where a landowner on the border was being sued, along with the county sherrif, for holding illegal aliens at gunpoint for crossing his land and calling Homeland Security (old Border Guards) to pick them up?
They claim he menanced them and put them in fear of their lives, even threatening to set his guard dog on them. A Mexican-American(?) legal aide group took up the cause and filed a case against the landowner.
So, it sounds to me that the direction that things are going is that we should have lemonaide and snacks ready for them, not the armed guards. I mean, who do we think we are, wanting to enforce our notions on visiting foreigners (okay, that last bit is dripping with sarcasm).
I think that the USA needs foreign workers and we should implement a real workers pass or visa for them that makes sense. It should be easy to get and come with real consequences if abused. If there was an easy legal way to come to the USA to work, we would have a lot less problem with illegals.
Why do you say that the USA needs foreign workers? I thought that there was large unemployment in the USA?
At this moment, you are quite correct, deanhills. But many jobs are no longer considered good or available due to changes in the laws and attitudes of the society. I spent the last few years in Oregon, where it is common for farmers to use Mexican laborers to gather crops. Some crops which had been picked by children during summer vacation, such as strawberries were subject to child labor laws that pretty much closed that sort of work down. Same for simple jobs such as newspaper delivery boy (or girl).
And even the disastrous Katrina Hurricane that devastated New Orleans made quite a bit of work for construction companies that preferred to hire outside the USA. Which makes sense because they could negotiate a much better cost of labor that way.
While the current recession/depression may change things, at least temporarily, I suspect that many employers in the USA will continue to hire migrant workers, many who are not in the USA legally.
And even the disastrous Katrina Hurricane that devastated New Orleans made quite a bit of work for construction companies that preferred to hire outside the USA. Which makes sense because they could negotiate a much better cost of labor that way.
While the current recession/depression may change things, at least temporarily, I suspect that many employers in the USA will continue to hire migrant workers, many who are not in the USA legally.
Your story reminds me of the two border patrol agents who were sent to jail after shooting a known drug smuggler. It was/is one of the biggest disgraces in history. Bush is an even bigger disgrace for not giving a full executive pardon (a commutation is only so good).
EDIT: The two agents were:
Jose Compean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Compean
Ignacio Ramos
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Ramos
Man....that's a disgrace, and i have to hear that the US justice is perfect.
Now, i don't want to get too off-topic so i'll add to the original matter: isn't a critical and extremist view on potential facts? I mean, if the possibility of a massive flood of people trying to cross the border would come up, the US should get organized in time and form to take a lesser impact. They must have some sort of plan to cover this kind of stuff.
(i had to edit the post because i'm not allowed to post URLs)
Now, i don't want to get too off-topic so i'll add to the original matter: isn't a critical and extremist view on potential facts? I mean, if the possibility of a massive flood of people trying to cross the border would come up, the US should get organized in time and form to take a lesser impact. They must have some sort of plan to cover this kind of stuff.
(i had to edit the post because i'm not allowed to post URLs)
Think the best course of action then would be an appeal to and cooperation with the Mexican Government. Better to work together than for the US to tackle this problem on its own, a border incident to happen that may risk the relationship between the two Governments?
True. But unemployment will be much higher before some people will take those jobs. Many feel they are too "good" to bend their back and sweat for a few dollars.
Well... I must say that war is not always a good option since many innocent people will get killed especially children. In fact, these people are the ones getting affected by these unnecessary war.
We can just sit down and talk about the problem on a matured manner so that no innocent people will get involved.
I wonder whether this has more to do with "cheap" labour and only Mexicans willing to work at less than the minimum wage, rather than people "breaking their backs"? Sort of unethical practices by employers, especially of the sweatshop variety?True. But unemployment will be much higher before some people will take those jobs. Many feel they are too "good" to bend their back and sweat for a few dollars.
Sweatshops are bad. What I am talking about are people who just refuse to work at all. The farms around here have to hire Mexican workers to do things like build fence and do anything crop wise. I can go into town right now and ask for help cleaning up storm damage. Just putting tree limbs in my truck. And they will not do it. They will not even say how much they would charge. I get, "Hell man, I would like to help you. But if anyone saw me I would lose my check, food stamps and Medicaid".I wonder whether this has more to do with "cheap" labour and only Mexicans willing to work at less than the minimum wage, rather than people "breaking their backs"? Sort of unethical practices by employers, especially of the sweatshop variety?
That is the people I was speaking of.
That is true. The support system is working against itself in this instance.But if anyone saw me I would lose my check, food stamps and Medicaid".
I thought it was good news when Hillary Clinton spoke out about the drug wars spilling over into the United States, and taking responsibility for it by saying that the demand for drugs in the United States is one of the biggest reasons for the spillover of the wars. Sounds as though she is really positive in working closely with the Mexican Government in trying to solve the problem. Good news I thought!
I hate when any American official leaves the US and then blames the US for their problems. The old blame the US first thing. I remember when Carter was running around other countries bad mouthing the US.I thought it was good news when Hillary Clinton spoke out about the drug wars spilling over into the United States, and taking responsibility for it by saying that the demand for drugs in the United States is one of the biggest reasons for the spillover of the wars. Sounds as though she is really positive in working closely with the Mexican Government in trying to solve the problem. Good news I thought!
At the same time I am all for working with them on the problems
I doubt Hillary Clinton was badmouthing the US. She was just taking responsibility for the problem, and I'm certain that has been well received by the Mexican Government, whose cooperation she is hoping to achieve. But yes, I have to agree with you wholeheartedly, Americans need to be a little more loyal to the US when they are abroad. Especially since they get reported all over the world and people take it as fact, rather than looking at it for motive.
I think she was right on target. We can't maintain the attitude that the Colombians and the Mexicans are responsible for the drug traffic in the US. If we weren't great customers, no one would be shipping drugs to us. We just look foolish if we keep blaming the growers and the shippers and saying the users aren't guilty. It's sort of like the way we handle prostitution in the US. The prostitutes and the pimps are criminals, but the customers are not, at least not to the same degree. Both sides of the transaction bear responsibility, and the same is true of the drug trade.
Mexico has the same problem with labor. There are jobs here that only Guatemalans and Hondurans do. Mexico is the big rich country in the north to them.
Mexico has the same problem with labor. There are jobs here that only Guatemalans and Hondurans do. Mexico is the big rich country in the north to them.
This is an interesting insight. I always assumed that there were only Mexicans and Canadian and US expats in Mexico, did not realize that there were people from Central America who are living in Mexico, but that would obviously make a lot of sense in retrospect.
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