The science of gun crimes

Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Perhaps we are using the term "Rule" in different ways.

ruleAbout Our Definitions: All forms of a word (noun, verb, etc.) are now displayed on one page.
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94 ENTRIES FOUND:

  1. rule
  2. rule against perpetuities
  3. rule joint
  4. rule nisi
  5. rule of adjunction
  6. rule of deduction
  7. rule of eleven
  8. rule off
  9. rule of faith
  10. rule of law
  11. rule of the air
  12. rule of the road
  13. rule of three
  14. rule of thumb
  15. rule of two and three
  16. rule out
  17. Allen's rule
  18. Basilian rule
  19. batter rule
  20. Bergmann's rule
  21. board rule
  22. caliber rule
  23. caliper rule
  24. chain rule
  25. closed rule
  26. column rule
  27. composing rule
  28. contraction rule
  29. cutting rule
  30. day rule


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1rule

noun \ˈrül\


Definition of RULE

1
a : a prescribed guide for conduct or action
b : the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for observance by its members
c : an accepted procedure, custom, or habit
d (1) : a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court practice or the action of parties (2) : a legal precept or doctrine
e : a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct

2
a (1) : a usually valid generalization (2) : a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode <fair weather was the rule yesterday — New York Times>
b : a standard of judgment : criterion
c : a regulating principle
d : a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a certain result

3
a : the exercise of authority or control : dominion
b : a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control

4
a : a strip of material marked off in units used especially for measuring : ruler 3, tape measure
b : a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design; also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip


I am referring to the definition in red....you may be using the one in blue.
Accepted. :)
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Will we revolt or slide quietly back into slavery and tyranny?

Throughout the course of human history in every single civilization, there have been the few outliers who predict extreme events such as these. The vast majority of the time they are wrong. And you likely are too because the vast majority of the country does not want revolution, the economic fundamentals are no where near collapse, and people still have access to the things they need to survive. You are just a sensationalist.
True.

We have seen several rebellions in US history. We even had a civil war to decide an issue. Have we ever stolen the wealth of our children and grandchildren as we are doing today? We have tens of trillions of dollars worth of debt, some smart people say the amount is in the hundreds of trillions. Those we are stealing the money from will reach their adulthood in the next few years. They may elect not to pay for the Obamaphones we want today.

Collapse will come soon. We are printing money. We are stealing from people who made good decisions by investing. Printing money taxes away the invested wealth. And we are creating a monstrous socialist welfare state. That leads to hard tyranny once other people's money begins to run out.


The conditions are ripe for a revolution. As we move away from the things that could fix this the only thing missing is the spark.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
True.

We have seen several rebellions in US history. We even had a civil war to decide an issue. Have we ever stolen the wealth of our children and grandchildren as we are doing today? We have tens of trillions of dollars worth of debt, some smart people say the amount is in the hundreds of trillions. Those we are stealing the money from will reach their adulthood in the next few years. They may elect not to pay for the Obamaphones we want today.

Collapse will come soon. We are printing money. We are stealing from people who made good decisions by investing. Printing money taxes away the invested wealth. And we are creating a monstrous socialist welfare state. That leads to hard tyranny once other people's money begins to run out.


The conditions are ripe for a revolution. As we move away from the things that could fix this the only thing missing is the spark.

Maybe this is better for another thread. What does all this have to do with guns? I'm not quite sure you grasp the economic environment and how to analyze it though.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
True.

We have seen several rebellions in US history. We even had a civil war to decide an issue. Have we ever stolen the wealth of our children and grandchildren as we are doing today? We have tens of trillions of dollars worth of debt, some smart people say the amount is in the hundreds of trillions. Those we are stealing the money from will reach their adulthood in the next few years. They may elect not to pay for the Obamaphones we want today.

Collapse will come soon. We are printing money. We are stealing from people who made good decisions by investing. Printing money taxes away the invested wealth. And we are creating a monstrous socialist welfare state. That leads to hard tyranny once other people's money begins to run out.


The conditions are ripe for a revolution. As we move away from the things that could fix this the only thing missing is the spark.

We have a dictator, not a government of checks and balanced. I never thought American presidents would appoint czars to dictate, or unqualified supreme court justices that interpret things to mean the opposite of what they mean. We need to take our country back, and you will know who to take out back from when they say "what do you mean take it back" from them. The cowards and nothings who just put down their arms and accept the mediocrity, they have chosen it, they want it.

Some people on here sound like defeated conquered cattel. Our rights are inalienable, never believe beaten dogs.
 
May 2009
225
0
USA
One more time - and get it straight in your head - there are no unalienable rights. Your rights are provided by law; which is implicit in the in the plain meaning of the Constitution. The framers of the Constitution created a nation of laws and not men. All rights exist only by law; and without the law, we have no rights. Without law, there is anarchy; which is antithetical to the very existence of the rights you advocate. Rights can only exist within the structure of organized society subject to the rule of law. In this, it must be admitted that there can be no society without the law; it is the very fabric of social structure. It is, like the air we breathe, pervasive and essential, affecting every aspect of human relationships and endeavors. Beyond this lies only the uncertainty of uncivilized life where there is no society, where every man is a law unto himself; and life, as Hobbes put it, is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan (1651). Such rights are nothing more than a scrambling possession that would be unlikely to last beyond the first to challenge the claim by force. The law is the only means by which real rights may be secured. That is the simple meaning of it.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
One more time - and get it straight in your head - there are no unalienable rights. Your rights are provided by law; which is implicit in the in the plain meaning of the Constitution. The framers of the Constitution created a nation of laws and not men. All rights exist only by law; and without the law, we have no rights. Without law, there is anarchy; which is antithetical to the very existence of the rights you advocate. Rights can only exist within the structure of organized society subject to the rule of law. In this, it must be admitted that there can be no society without the law; it is the very fabric of social structure. It is, like the air we breathe, pervasive and essential, affecting every aspect of human relationships and endeavors. Beyond this lies only the uncertainty of uncivilized life where there is no society, where every man is a law unto himself; and life, as Hobbes put it, is "solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short." Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan (1651). Such rights are nothing more than a scrambling possession that would be unlikely to last beyond the first to challenge the claim by force. The law is the only means by which real rights may be secured. That is the simple meaning of it.

One more time to you, I will not get your lie in my head. You can talk about the framers all you want and pretend you are clairvoyant and know what they were thinking.

My rights are inalienable. I will die for this ideal your comment isn't enough. I will be dead inthe cold earth before I allow my rights to be taken away.

So go surrender and think I am an idiot all you want. But its people with the back bone to tell you and the others that chastise people like me that you are wrong, not because of your God kings in robes but because we know they are but men.

Get this thought your head, you will never ever get your view point through my head. It requires my death to get me to stop fighting you on this.

this is something you just can't win, today isn't your day either.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
One more time to you, I will not get your lie in my head. You can talk about the framers all you want and pretend you are clairvoyant and know what they were thinking.

My rights are inalienable. I will die for this ideal your comment isn't enough. I will be dead inthe cold earth before I allow my rights to be taken away.

So go surrender and think I am an idiot all you want. But its people with the back bone to tell you and the others that chastise people like me that you are wrong, not because of your God kings in robes but because we know they are but men.

Get this thought your head, you will never ever get your view point through my head. It requires my death to get me to stop fighting you on this.

this is something you just can't win, today isn't your day either.

In other words...there is absolutely no reason to discuss this with you.

As a general rule, a debate forum is a place to question beliefs, educate ourselves on multiple opinions, and become more than we were through growth and data gathering. The above statement(s) make it clear you do not wish to debate, but rather (as in testament in the many posts saying the same thing), repeat your opinion to the point of annoyance.

We get it, You do not care for your Government, constitution, laws, or authority....with the exception of those aspects that allow you to state you do not like them.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
In other words...there is absolutely no reason to discuss this with you.

As a general rule, a debate forum is a place to question beliefs, educate ourselves on multiple opinions, and become more than we were through growth and data gathering. The above statement(s) make it clear you do not wish to debate, but rather (as in testament in the many posts saying the same thing), repeat your opinion to the point of annoyance.

We get it, You do not care for your Government, constitution, laws, or authority....with the exception of those aspects that allow you to state you do not like them.

This was directed sty Nemo, who told me I was wrong and there is no reason to debate it.

I will happily debate with someone that doesn't tell me to take their opinion was fact, or to get things straight in my cold dead head.

He made it clear he wasn't interested in debate but insisting I am wrong. I was just debating fire with fire.

I reject his premise that rights are subject to courts, and also that I should just except it. He closed the door on debate, I closed the door on him.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
...snip...

I reject his premise that rights are subject to courts, and also that I should just except it. He closed the door on debate, I closed the door on him.

It is your "Right" to reject it....this however does not change the reality. As a public servant you of all people should understand the way our system works. What rights you enjoy in this country have been protected by the thousands of laws created to do so. When these laws are ignored or broken, said rights are often removed by force and many others with them.

You have the right to free speech, until your use of this right becomes damaging to others...then it is removed.

You have the right to the pursuit of happiness, until your happiness requires the removal of the same right for someone else...then it is removed.

You have the right to bear arms, until you use this right in a way that threatens the safety of those around you...then it is removed.


All these rights are protected under law...defined by legislation and supported by the courts. There can be no question of the validity of this simple truth without ignoring reality completely.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
.

We get it, You do not care for your Government, constitution, laws, or authority....with the exception of those aspects that allow you to state you do not like them.

No, you don't quite get it, rights have nothing to do with the government or laws or authority. They are individual, and only subject to us. I don't think the government has any place in our rights except to protect them. The purpose of the court is to punish those who infringe upon them, and in grey areas decide what infringement is.

Did anti abortion laws infringe on first amendments, the courts said yes, so they were deemed unconstitutional, so thus is their job.

Does my owning of an object infringe on anybody's rights? I would like to know how. If that object sitting locked up in my safe unloaded infringes on the rights of anybody I would destroy it myself. Please make that case I am very interested in that, like I said I am ready to die to protect rights.

I am not being sarcastic, I am intersected to know.

The idea of banning certain firearms that fit certain criteria is stating that the possession of such a weapon infringes on someone else's rights. Now I am the type of person that believes I must defend everybody's rights as though they are my own. Now that being said, I would be remiss if things I was doing were in fact infringing on others rights.

But courts infringing upon my rights as a reaction to a crime that I cannot agree with. As I see that it is indeed tyranny.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
It is your "Right" to reject it....this however does not change the reality. As a public servant you of all people should understand the way our system works.
I reject his opinion, not reality. If the courts infringe where out says they must not without an amendment and do process this is breaking the law, nit upholding out. The constitution is the law the judges are people, nine people, that are public servants. I am a public servant and I wasn't elected, I was appointed. Of I go against the law my integrity is compromised. There are things that are my judgment in the field, of I think that I can forgo the Miranda rights readings, out is clearly written that I am not correct. I can't abuse my power it must be treated very seriously.

What rights you enjoy in this country have been protected by the thousands of laws created to do so. When these laws are ignored or broken, said rights are often removed by force and many others with them.
I agree 100% that laws should protect our rights, really that is the absolute only reason for laws.

However when laws that protect rights are broken, the rights shouldn't be removed the breakers of the law should be punished or forbidden by Law to continue to violate said rights. The court is there to decide if rights are being violated not to apply punishment meant for one person upon the entire nation.

You have the right to free speech, until your use of this right becomes damaging to others...then it is removed.

You have the right to the pursuit of happiness, until your happiness requires the removal of the same right for someone else...then it is removed.

You have the right to bear arms, until you use this right in a way that threatens the safety of those around you...then it is removed.
All these rights are protected under law...defined by legislation and supported by the courts. There can be no question of the validity of this simple truth without ignoring reality completely.
There are limits to our liberties, yelling fire in a crowded theater is not protected speech because it puts people in danger.

There is no right to go to a grade school and blow everyone away, I really am okay with there being laws against that. I am not being obtuse or not trying to be anyway but lets not forget that the crime wasn't owning a gun, it was murder. The gun is but an object, all be it a deadly object, but in and of itself a harmless piece of plastic. The assault weapon in thus case was the thought to put bullets in the gun, go to a child's school point the gun at the children and kill them. The object doesn't assault anyone the person does, out is already illegal the law has done all it can.

I am willing to talk about the limits of the second amendment, out is dire importance that it must be, but infringed no, it must not be.

I am reasonable, but not to Nemo's hyperbole.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
No, you don't quite get it, rights have nothing to do with the government or laws or authority. They are individual, and only subject to us. I don't think the government has any place in our rights except to protect them. The purpose of the court is to punish those who infringe upon them, and in grey areas decide what infringement is.

Here is the confusion to me...in the above comment you clearly state the Government role is to protect your rights, and the courts to punish and decide what should be the law. Yet it seems your position is that the courts should not do so, and the Government should not protect rights...unless they happen to be "Your" rights........what about "Mine"?


Did anti abortion laws infringe on first amendments, the courts said yes, so they were deemed unconstitutional, so thus is their job.

Wait...so the courts are doing their job when deciding what freedoms we are allowed in society?...hmm, interesting. May want to review your previous comments on this.

Does my owning of an object infringe on anybody's rights? I would like to know how. If that object sitting locked up in my safe unloaded infringes on the rights of anybody I would destroy it myself. Please make that case I am very interested in that, like I said I am ready to die to protect rights.

I am not being sarcastic, I am intersected to know.

The obvious answer is no...as you are well aware. Though you did not lay claim to the sarcastic nature of the question...it is there. As there is currently no move to "Take 'yer Guns", and is unlikely to ever be, the question seems rather pointless. If however, the Government decides to prohibit or regulate further sales of something deemed detrimental to societal health...I must accept it to live within the society I have chosen.

Do you have a problem with the FDA removing a dangerous drug from the market?


The idea of banning certain firearms that fit certain criteria is stating that the possession of such a weapon infringes on someone else's rights. Now I am the type of person that believes I must defend everybody's rights as though they are my own. Now that being said, I would be remiss if things I was doing were in fact infringing on others rights.

Thing is, the Government and justice system defines those rights...not you. Just try to claim a right to go into Macys with an AR-15 on your shoulder while drinking a fifth of Jack Daniels and smoking a doobie. You will very quickly notice the limitations placed on your perceived rights over those given to the lady at the cosmetics counter.


But courts infringing upon my rights as a reaction to a crime that I cannot agree with. As I see that it is indeed tyranny.

It is not up to you to decide the rights of society, and you live within the society. Individual freedoms must have limits if we are to avoid Chaos and a wild west situation. This is the very reason for our system of justice and regulation. To be honest...I would not wish to live next door to someone who has guns and no respect for the law.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
It is not up to you to decide the rights of society, and you live within the society. Individual freedoms must have limits if we are to avoid Chaos and a wild west situation. This is the very reason for our system of justice and regulation. To be honest...I would not wish to live next door to someone who has guns and no respect for the law.

I am a law enforcement officer, I take the law very seriously. If our justice system breaks the law it is my duty my oath to stand up against it. I serve and protect the peace.

It isn't up to the courts to decide which rights we have and don't have, it is the constitution. The court is only there to make sure rights are not infringed upon.

If there is a clear and present danger to the rights of others than you are beyond the scope of rights. Rights don't give you the right to infringe on rights.

If you live next do to me you would have no idea I had guns. It isn't despicable to broadcast that info to the world. They are locked in a safe when I am not taking them out our putting them in. I have a14 year old in my home. No ammo, no magazines no trace. Just a safe.

Any other behavior is reckless, in the wrong hands these objects can be dangerous even unintentionally. I am for laws regulating this. I have never had an accent, an unintentional discharge. There are common sense rules they make a gun 100% safe.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
A lump of plastic or metal isn't dangerous, I wouldn't be scared of it, it would poise no threat to me. If a person was pointing it at me, well he doesn't have that right, he is indeed breaking the law, the law isn't an unstoppable force it is simply agreed upon by society and chosen to follow. The only reason we have laws is because people follow them. Really many laws exist that are not followed or respected. There are jails full of people to prove that.

Also, civil disobediance is our control. It has happens a couple times in our history, and the government backed down because they must. They are small, and our servants. That is the way it must be.

Now banning a general notion of a type of gun is easily maneuvered around, ban mag capacity, we have speed mags, not sure what eels constitutes an assault weapon.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
I am a law enforcement officer, I take the law very seriously. If our justice system breaks the law it is my duty my oath to stand up against it. I serve and protect the peace.

Stand all you want, just do not do the same.


It isn't up to the courts to decide which rights we have and don't have, it is the constitution. The court is only there to make sure rights are not infringed upon.

Actually, yes it IS up to the courts to decide your rights. Though they do so withing the guidelines of the constitution, the system is designed to expand upon the rough guidelines in our living document.

If there is a clear and present danger to the rights of others than you are beyond the scope of rights. Rights don't give you the right to infringe on rights.

Again, you are not given the right to decide these things...nor am I. What I may define as a "Clear and Present Danger" will be very different from your opinion...thus we have created a system to argue the details and define a compromise opinion based on what is considered most acceptable to our society.

If you live next do to me you would have no idea I had guns. It isn't despicable to broadcast that info to the world. They are locked in a safe when I am not taking them out our putting them in. I have a14 year old in my home. No ammo, no magazines no trace. Just a safe.

Likely true, but that was not my point. Would you be comfortable with the house next door to and your son you containing someone who disregards the law and was armed?

Any other behavior is reckless, in the wrong hands these objects can be dangerous even unintentionally. I am for laws regulating this. I have never had an accent, an unintentional discharge. There are common sense rules they make a gun 100% safe.

Yes there are common sense rules...there are also laws based on said rules that attempt to validate them for society at large.

Where do you think those laws came from?
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Yes there are common sense rules...there are also laws based on said rules that attempt to validate them for society at large.

Where do you think those laws came from?

The obligation of the courts to protect rights.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
The obligation of the courts to protect rights.

On paper yes...in the streets that falls to people like you. The courts allow you to "Protect and Serve" legally. Glad you came around from the earlier belief on our courts.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
On paper yes...in the streets that falls to people like you. The courts allow you to "Protect and Serve" legally. Glad you came around from the earlier belief on our courts.

It is my duty to enforce the law, by doing that I am protecting rights.

I still don't think the courts decide what rights we do or don't have. I never changed that belief. Our rights are inalienable, especially by the state.

Laws should protect them, all not remove them.

In the streets my job is to apprehend violators. If someone is infringing on the rights of others they are breaking law. I really have a huge capacity to be a vigilante, many police do, this is where police brutality starts becoming common.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
It is my duty to enforce the law, by doing that I am protecting rights.

I still don't think the courts decide what rights we do or don't have. I never changed that belief. Our rights are inalienable, especially by the state.

Laws should protect them, all not remove them.

In the streets my job is to apprehend violators. If someone is infringing on the rights of others they are breaking law. I really have a huge capacity to be a vigilante, many police do, this is where police brutality starts becoming common.

Okay...lets look at this another way:

"Inalienable Rights~

Not subject to sale or transfer; inseparable.
That which is inalienable cannot be bought, sold, or transferred from one individual to another. The personal rights to life and liberty guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States are inalienable. Similarly, various types of property are inalienable, such as rivers, streams, and highways."



Considering the definition above, does a woman have the same rights as a man?

If so, why does she not have them in Afghanistan but does have them here?

Why did she have far fewer inalienable rights 100 yrs ago in the United States?

Did African Americans spontaniously develop these rights due to a genetic alteration?

~Or~

Did we create laws to change our society and enforce them through the courts?
 
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