Tolerance in the modern world (spin-off thread)

[ArghMonkey]

I don't see a lot of tolerance from anyone anymore. Believer, non-believer, conservative, "progressive". None of them truly believe the other side has a right to think what they think. Arrogance all around in my opinion.

I think the big reason for that is people dont feel connected to their community and family.

The fact is people hate each other *L* not naturally in extreme, but they can always find fault with those around them, in my grandparents generation that was tolerated, the person was still invited to go fishing, they were still invited over for dinners and unless you were a supreme asshole you were shown respect.

In a society that obsesses over individualism you find that depression, suicide, poverty, all rise.

Its too easy in our world to tell off our parents and move away, it used to be that you were forced to get along, even when you didnt mean it, you eventually grew to respect each other.

I feel like I am rambling here but when society is interconnected people build strong friendships, my grandfather had friends that would die for him and the reason was they spent lots of time together, they hung out, watched sports, their families went on vacation together, they would go to each others house for drinks, if someone was seen snooping around their friends house they grabbed a baseball bat and went over to see what was going on, in short, they gave a shit about each other, they loved their neighbour!

This spread to worker rights etc, if my grandparents large society circle were hurting for money they would all cook them dinners and invite themselves over, they would get together and help fix a fence or install roofing or watch kids, if it turned out one of their friends was being ripped off they would get mad and they organize.

This is what society used to be like, now it wasent perfect, there were lots of other problems, some of which we dont have today but in regards to why everyone seems so disconnected, it is because people ARE so disconnected.

It is not in my immediate interest to get along with the strange guy next door, so I ignore him, he could turn out to be a good friend, he could have a problem I could help with, I might have a problem he could help with, but I will never know, because I am too busy thinking about me and I might notice he likes to keep his garbage pails out too long, this might annoy me and then one day, after a long day at work he may say hi and I will snub him and act like I didnt hear him, continuing the slow destruction of the community we both HAVE to live in.

If you want to talk about tolerance and making a better society, why not start by giving a shit about about others in society, why not talk to your neighbours, invite them over, treat them with respect and if they ignore u, be even nicer!

Or keep putting money first, ignore the problems of others in your society, blame other people for being poor, twist it in your mind until your selfishness and greed is all that really matters ...

Small minded people make their bed and lay in it too!

 

[DodgeFB]

I think the big reason for that is people dont feel connected to their community and family.

The fact is people hate each other *L* not naturally in extreme, but they can always find fault with those around them, in my grandparents generation that was tolerated, the person was still invited to go fishing, they were still invited over for dinners and unless you were a supreme asshole you were shown respect.

In a society that obsesses over individualism you find that depression, suicide, poverty, all rise.

Its too easy in our world to tell off our parents and move away, it used to be that you were forced to get along, even when you didnt mean it, you eventually grew to respect each other.

I feel like I am rambling here but when society is interconnected people build strong friendships, my grandfather had friends that would die for him and the reason was they spent lots of time together, they hung out, watched sports, their families went on vacation together, they would go to each others house for drinks, if someone was seen snooping around their friends house they grabbed a baseball bat and went over to see what was going on, in short, they gave a shit about each other, they loved their neighbour!

This spread to worker rights etc, if my grandparents large society circle were hurting for money they would all cook them dinners and invite themselves over, they would get together and help fix a fence or install roofing or watch kids, if it turned out one of their friends was being ripped off they would get mad and they organize.

This is what society used to be like, now it wasent perfect, there were lots of other problems, some of which we dont have today but in regards to why everyone seems so disconnected, it is because people ARE so disconnected.

It is not in my immediate interest to get along with the strange guy next door, so I ignore him, he could turn out to be a good friend, he could have a problem I could help with, I might have a problem he could help with, but I will never know, because I am too busy thinking about me and I might notice he likes to keep his garbage pails out too long, this might annoy me and then one day, after a long day at work he may say hi and I will snub him and act like I didnt hear him, continuing the slow destruction of the community we both HAVE to live in.

If you want to talk about tolerance and making a better society, why not start by giving a shit about about others in society, why not talk to your neighbours, invite them over, treat them with respect and if they ignore u, be even nicer!

Or keep putting money first, ignore the problems of others in your society, blame other people for being poor, twist it in your mind until your selfishness and greed is all that really matters ...

Small minded people make their bed and lay in it too!

Surprise! I think you are right. I actually remember those days and really miss them.

 

[deanhills]

If you want to talk about tolerance and making a better society, why not start by giving a shit about about others in society, why not talk to your neighbours, invite them over, treat them with respect and if they ignore u, be even nicer!

I think Canadians have made a lot of progress in this direction, and specifically in Vancouver I do believe one gets close to people "giving a shit" (pardon the expression :redface. Police don't sit in their offices or their cars, they walk or cycle the streets, talk to your homeless and mingle with people in coffee shops. This way they really get to know the lay out of the land and people of the neighbourhood. If one goes to coffeeshops, and hang out regularly, it is a good way for hooking up. I seem to recall a Coffee Shop in the West End of Vancouver called Delaneys, and have learned a lot from many people, including the police. I particularly learned that people do care about one another.

The Vancouver Library is a Treasure Trove of names and contact information of virtually hundreds of interest groups in the Lower Mainland of Vancouver. This Library is probably one of the most valuable services of the Vancouver Municipality to the people of Vancouver. An amazing place! Anyone who lives in Vancouver can go there, and are always treated like royalty by the staff.

So Dodge, maybe this is a place well worth visiting! If you want to, you can get one of those shopping trolleys from Safeways, dress up in nice camouflage, and then camp out in Stanley Park. You can get free breakfasts in most coffee shops as they are usually quite eager not to have the homeless sitting down, as the aroma is quite something. I saw that happening once, and none of the staff chased the homeless lady out. Two police did very discreetly encourage her to leave, and what a relief that was, but there were no bad vibes at all, only good and humouristic ones.

 

[David]

I think the big reason for that is people dont feel connected to their community and family.

The fact is people hate each other *L* not naturally in extreme, but they can always find fault with those around them, in my grandparents generation that was tolerated, the person was still invited to go fishing, they were still invited over for dinners and unless you were a supreme asshole you were shown respect.

In a society that obsesses over individualism you find that depression, suicide, poverty, all rise.

Its too easy in our world to tell off our parents and move away, it used to be that you were forced to get along, even when you didnt mean it, you eventually grew to respect each other.

I feel like I am rambling here but when society is interconnected people build strong friendships, my grandfather had friends that would die for him and the reason was they spent lots of time together, they hung out, watched sports, their families went on vacation together, they would go to each others house for drinks, if someone was seen snooping around their friends house they grabbed a baseball bat and went over to see what was going on, in short, they gave a shit about each other, they loved their neighbour!

This spread to worker rights etc, if my grandparents large society circle were hurting for money they would all cook them dinners and invite themselves over, they would get together and help fix a fence or install roofing or watch kids, if it turned out one of their friends was being ripped off they would get mad and they organize.

This is what society used to be like, now it wasent perfect, there were lots of other problems, some of which we dont have today but in regards to why everyone seems so disconnected, it is because people ARE so disconnected.

It is not in my immediate interest to get along with the strange guy next door, so I ignore him, he could turn out to be a good friend, he could have a problem I could help with, I might have a problem he could help with, but I will never know, because I am too busy thinking about me and I might notice he likes to keep his garbage pails out too long, this might annoy me and then one day, after a long day at work he may say hi and I will snub him and act like I didnt hear him, continuing the slow destruction of the community we both HAVE to live in.

If you want to talk about tolerance and making a better society, why not start by giving a shit about about others in society, why not talk to your neighbours, invite them over, treat them with respect and if they ignore u, be even nicer!

Or keep putting money first, ignore the problems of others in your society, blame other people for being poor, twist it in your mind until your selfishness and greed is all that really matters ...

Small minded people make their bed and lay in it too!

Agree 100%

 

[ArghMonkey]

Amazing and yet liberal minded people in the u.s. get shit on for targeting corruption and trying to sustain a minimum living standard in the richest country in the world and the conservatives lament some past that never existed and think they just need to be more judgemental and push Christianity down everyones throat ...

If you want to make society better you actually have to give a shit *L*

Stop me if this just makes too much sense but that includes making sure worker rights are strong, so owners cant screw over their workers, minority rights, so those that have little or no influence in society can still get a say, especially when they make up a larger population then those in power, healhcare! time to concentrate on saving lives and healing people ...

"Good" countries arent defined by how much power they give to business or how many rich people they have, they are defined by how the people care for each other, how civic minded they are and how they keep government on a short leash and make sure that decisions made are in the benefit of EVERYONE, not just some elite, rich, assholes at the top of the pile.

 

[DodgeFB]

Amazing and yet liberal minded people in the u.s. get shit on for targeting corruption and trying to sustain a minimum living standard in the richest country in the world and the conservatives lament some past that never existed and think they just need to be more judgemental and push Christianity down everyones throat ...

If you want to make society better you actually have to give a shit *L*

Stop me if this just makes too much sense but that includes making sure worker rights are strong, so owners cant screw over their workers, minority rights, so those that have little or no influence in society can still get a say, especially when they make up a larger population then those in power, healhcare! time to concentrate on saving lives and healing people ...

"Good" countries arent defined by how much power they give to business or how many rich people they have, they are defined by how the people care for each other, how civic minded they are and how they keep government on a short leash and make sure that decisions made are in the benefit of EVERYONE, not just some elite, rich, assholes at the top of the pile.

It is too late for most of that here.

1.The US is now in debt up to it's ears and going deeper.

2.A lot of what " conservatives lament" did exist because as a child of the 50s and 60s I lived it.

3. "Christianity" has very little to do with most people's lives in the US anymore. There are several reasons for this. They just never got it or were bullied away by others that just never got it. And it is not politically correct anymore.

4. As for the "worker rights are strong" thing, I had a job that forced us to be in "the Union". They nit picked and bitched until they cost us all our jobs. In the end the man that owned the company shut it down and locked the doors. How did he do that? He was the one signing the checks. The ones with the money just get to make a few decisions in this world. After we got the notice guess what the union did for the people they had extorted for years? Some dude in a suit showed up from the "Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union and made our treasurer write a check for every penny in our local accounts. We were not allowed to divide the money or even have a farewell party. The union did nothing for us but cost us our jobs.

5.The people in a country make it "good"or bad. Right now our country could be better. But it could be much worse.

 

[Dirk]

4. As for the "worker rights are strong" thing, I had a job that forced us to be in "the Union". They nit picked and bitched until they cost us all our jobs. In the end the man that owned the company shut it down and locked the doors. How did he do that? He was the one signing the checks. The ones with the money just get to make a few decisions in this world. After we got the notice guess what the union did for the people they had extorted for years? Some dude in a suit showed up from the "Machinists/Aerospace Workers Union and made our treasurer write a check for every penny in our local accounts. We were not allowed to divide the money or even have a farewell party. The union did nothing for us but cost us our jobs.

Wow, that union sounds shart. Obviously, a union should never be compulsory. I also despise anti-democratic unions with a passion.

 

[David]

Wow, that union sounds shart. Obviously, a union should never be compulsory. I also despise anti-democratic unions with a passion.

I oppose unions outright. Power to the workers, not money grabbing elites demanding 'protection money'.

 

[Dirk]

I oppose unions outright. Power to the workers, not money grabbing elites demanding 'protection money'.

I support democratic unions. Particularly unions without union bosses. I think they're a good organising point for the labour movement (which i strongly support).

When the workers have control, they will be less important - and in some cases, irrelevant, however.

 

[David]

I support democratic unions. Particularly unions without union bosses. I think they're a good organising point for the labour movement (which i strongly support).

When the workers have control, they will be less important - and in some cases, irrelevant, however.

I know what you mean as I work for such a company but as shareholders they can only screw us over so much before they risk us simply voting our rights back at the next shareholder meeting.

 

[deanhills]

I just wonder sometimes how democratic unions are and how counter-productive they can be for the economy. I can understand that they need to be around, but sometimes they give the impression of a Government within Governments. Isn't that another form of socialism as well?

 

[Dirk]

I just wonder sometimes how democratic unions are and how counter-productive they can be for the economy. I can understand that they need to be around, but sometimes they give the impression of a Government within Governments. Isn't that another form of socialism as well?

I think there's a bit of confusion as to what a union is. A union is a group of workers organising to protect themselves against the bosses.

They have a variety of set-ups. There are good unions and bad unions.

 

[deanhills]

I think there's a bit of confusion as to what a union is. A union is a group of workers organising to protect themselves against the bosses.

Right, that is usually how they start off, however at some or other point sometimes they become like Governments themselves where those who are in charge, become like a mini-Government and they forget that they are supposed to look after their workers, and get focussed more on their own agendas.

 

[Nemo]

There are many forms of prejudice, but intolerance is the most blind and the most brutally stupid. It makes no allowances, rejecting the good with the bad - it would throw out the baby with the bath water. There can be little reason or justification for such wholesale exclusion of anything. Everyone has something they cannot tolerate; which is why the world is in such an intolerable state. If only people were more tolerant of each other, then, for once, there might be peace in the world.

 

[David]

There are many forms of prejudice, but intolerance is the most blind and the most brutally stupid. It makes no allowances, rejecting the good with the bad - it would throw out the baby with the bath water. There can be little reason or justification for such wholesale exclusion of anything. Everyone has something they cannot tolerate; which is why the world is in such an intolerable state. If only people were more tolerant of each other, then, for once, there might be peace in the world.

Peace? War is literally in our DNA. Genocide has been part of our MO from the 1st cities. Their can be no peace, not lasting anyway, with humans.

 

[Dirk]

Right, that is usually how they start off, however at some or other point sometimes they become like Governments themselves where those who are in charge, become like a mini-Government and they forget that they are supposed to look after their workers, and get focussed more on their own agendas.

Well, let's not paint all the sheds the same colour.

I happen to agree that there are some truly shit unions. Some work with the bosses, some get far too involved with politicians, some cut too many deals, some are purely a product of the union bosses themselves, and some of them lack any semblence of democracy - many others don't have enough.

Of course. But there are also brilliant unions that are properly run by their members. There are unions that defend the worker on the floor fom the man upstairs. There are unions that will not involve themselves in shady deals with governments.

Peace? War is literally in our DNA. Genocide has been part of our MO from the 1st cities. Their can be no peace, not lasting anyway, with humans.

Actually, we didn't inherit the gene of tendency to resolve conflict through violence, like babboons and chimpanzees. We inherited the gene of our cousins, the bonobo monkeys, which is a tendency for sex in the resolution of conflicts.

 

[David]

Well, let's not paint all the sheds the same colour.

I happen to agree that there are some truly shit unions. Some work with the bosses, some get far too involved with politicians, some cut too many deals, some are purely a product of the union bosses themselves, and some of them lack any semblence of democracy - many others don't have enough.

Of course. But there are also brilliant unions that are properly run by their members. There are unions that defend the worker on the floor fom the man upstairs. There are unions that will not involve themselves in shady deals with governments.



Actually, we didn't inherit the gene of tendency to resolve conflict through violence, like babboons and chimpanzees. We inherited the gene of our cousins, the bonobo monkeys, which is a tendency for sex in the resolution of conflicts.

And you know how many wars sex has started?

 

[deanhills]

There are many forms of prejudice, but intolerance is the most blind and the most brutally stupid. It makes no allowances, rejecting the good with the bad - it would throw out the baby with the bath water. There can be little reason or justification for such wholesale exclusion of anything. Everyone has something they cannot tolerate; which is why the world is in such an intolerable state. If only people were more tolerant of each other, then, for once, there might be peace in the world.

Agreed, and this is at the core of wars: prejudice and intolerance of other religions. Thing is, when people get elected and they compete in order to get elected, this encourages people to find topics that are popular so that people can elect them, and some of the popular topics tend to be prejudicial and have to do with intolerance of other people's beliefs.

 

[JFSC201]

I think the big reason for that is people dont feel connected to their community and family.

The fact is people hate each other *L* not naturally in extreme, but they can always find fault with those around them, in my grandparents generation that was tolerated, the person was still invited to go fishing, they were still invited over for dinners and unless you were a supreme asshole you were shown respect.

In a society that obsesses over individualism you find that depression, suicide, poverty, all rise.

Its too easy in our world to tell off our parents and move away, it used to be that you were forced to get along, even when you didnt mean it, you eventually grew to respect each other.

I feel like I am rambling here but when society is interconnected people build strong friendships, my grandfather had friends that would die for him and the reason was they spent lots of time together, they hung out, watched sports, their families went on vacation together, they would go to each others house for drinks, if someone was seen snooping around their friends house they grabbed a baseball bat and went over to see what was going on, in short, they gave a shit about each other, they loved their neighbour!

This spread to worker rights etc, if my grandparents large society circle were hurting for money they would all cook them dinners and invite themselves over, they would get together and help fix a fence or install roofing or watch kids, if it turned out one of their friends was being ripped off they would get mad and they organize.

This is what society used to be like, now it wasent perfect, there were lots of other problems, some of which we dont have today but in regards to why everyone seems so disconnected, it is because people ARE so disconnected.

It is not in my immediate interest to get along with the strange guy next door, so I ignore him, he could turn out to be a good friend, he could have a problem I could help with, I might have a problem he could help with, but I will never know, because I am too busy thinking about me and I might notice he likes to keep his garbage pails out too long, this might annoy me and then one day, after a long day at work he may say hi and I will snub him and act like I didnt hear him, continuing the slow destruction of the community we both HAVE to live in.

If you want to talk about tolerance and making a better society, why not start by giving a shit about about others in society, why not talk to your neighbours, invite them over, treat them with respect and if they ignore u, be even nicer!

Or keep putting money first, ignore the problems of others in your society, blame other people for being poor, twist it in your mind until your selfishness and greed is all that really matters ...

Small minded people make their bed and lay in it too!

Very well said. Now we have things like Facebook or Instant Messaging which allow us to politely snub a person or just turn off someone like a light switch. Its a world filled with convenience including how we interact with people.

 

[deanhills]

Very well said. Now we have things like Facebook or Instant Messaging which allow us to politely snub a person or just turn off someone like a light switch. Its a world filled with convenience including how we interact with people.

I've never been into Facebook nor Instant Messaging, so probably have been completely oblivious of that kind of political snubs. The ones I have been aware off are the ones that have been reported on by the Media. The others I thought that have not been picked up by the media could not have been that relevant?