A new Ron Paul in 2012?

There is only One Ron Paul, the good doctor himself.

Really hope you all vote for RP next election. I?m sick and tired of your 2 headed monster (Rep, Dem) that causes nothing but destruction worldwide. What you vote for in the US has huge impact on the world, Your former president fooled my country into war with Iraq and Afghanistan, two wars that should never been started. I encourage you all to STOP THE AMERICAN-BRITHISH EMPERIALISM!!!

gibsonride said:

Really hope you all vote for RP next election. I?m sick and tired of your 2 headed monster (Rep, Dem) that causes nothing but destruction worldwide. What you vote for in the US has huge impact on the world, Your former president fooled my country into war with Iraq and Afghanistan, two wars that should never been started. I encourage you all to STOP THE AMERICAN-BRITHISH EMPERIALISM!!!

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Iraq I'm happy to say is winding down and Afghanistan is, at least for us, far from being an unjustified war.

gibsonride said:

Really hope you all vote for RP next election. I?m sick and tired of your 2 headed monster (Rep, Dem) that causes nothing but destruction worldwide. What you vote for in the US has huge impact on the world, Your former president fooled my country into war with Iraq and Afghanistan, two wars that should never been started. I encourage you all to STOP THE AMERICAN-BRITHISH EMPERIALISM!!!

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I partially agree with you, but for vastly different reasons. Ron Paul is one of a handful of honorable members of Congress, and he respects our Constitution. I would have voted for him if he'd enjoyed a chance of winning.

About that imperialism, and the worldwide destruction? No, the U.S. should not be attempting to build 21st-century nations from 6th-century backwater hellholes -- it's a waste of time, money and lives. Far better if Bush had simply ordered the destruction of a major Muslim city each day until the financial and operational supporters of the 9/11 attacks were handed over for justice. These ground wars, along with the humanitarian efforts to win over people who will never love us, no matter how many schools and hospitals we build, were among Bush's greatest failings as president.

Gibsonride, it's very nice that you take such interest in my nation's politics. We're flattered. Provincial American that I am, I don't pay much attention to Brit or Euro politics, except to chuckle now and then while watching y'all -- it's a bit like watching a few old men argue over the gravy at a rest home Sunday brunch.

AK_ID said:

I partially agree with you, but for vastly different reasons. Ron Paul is one of a handful of honorable members of Congress, and he respects our Constitution. I would have voted for him if he'd enjoyed a chance of winning.

About that imperialism, and the worldwide destruction? No, the U.S. should not be attempting to build 21st-century nations from 6th-century backwater hellholes -- it's a waste of time, money and lives. Far better if Bush had simply ordered the destruction of a major Muslim city each day until the financial and operational supporters of the 9/11 attacks were handed over for justice. These ground wars, along with the humanitarian efforts to win over people who will never love us, no matter how many schools and hospitals we build, were among Bush's greatest failings as president.

Gibsonride, it's very nice that you take such interest in my nation's politics. We're flattered. Provincial American that I am, I don't pay much attention to Brit or Euro politics, except to chuckle now and then while watching y'all -- it's a bit like watching a few old men argue over the gravy at a rest home Sunday brunch.

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Morally and with sympathies with Islam as a religion, I must say, what a horrible position to take! But from a cold and calculating pov, too true I'm afraid.

Practicality is never horrible. Distasteful, maybe, but not horrible.

David said:

Morally and with sympathies with Islam as a religion, I must say, what a horrible position to take! But from a cold and calculating pov, too true I'm afraid.

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Those who advocate the cold and calculating POV from the standpoint of intelligence point out that it is most unwise to give the appearance of a cold and calculating POV. Sun T?zu gives the highest priority to the moral imperative. A careful reading of Sun T?zu makes clear that he is speaking of the perceived moral imperative, not the actual moral imperative.
The same is true of Niccolo Machiavelli. The Prince must appear to be mild, merciful, courteous, religious, and sincere, but to be actually so is a disadvantage. Therefore the real virtue is hypocrisy.
We live in an interlocked world. It is clear to an informed person that we have no real moral defense in our support of Israel and our invasion of the Mid-Eastern oil lands. This is naked real politick once one is removed from the American propaganda apparatus. That accounts for the numerous times the United States has stood practically alone in the UN where only the American veto stopped condemnation of Israel by the United Nations. It also explains why America?s invasion of Iraq was a solo operation except for a few committed allies, most of whom were operating against the desires of their public.
As our real power diminishes on the World Stage, we cannot really afford to palpably play the villain. Nazi Germany demonstrated the folly of that.
In the past, when we have fought major wars on the World Stage which culminated successfully, we could claim the moral imperative with a reasonable degree of success. In the Vietnamese war, America could not even convince its own people of its moral imperative. So, America lost in spite of never suffering a single significant military defeat.
In addition, we must not ignore America?s vulnerability on two fronts. One, our cities are exposed to the threat of a smuggled nuke against which, at the present, we have no real defense. Two, we have linked our fate to Israel?s fate, and Israel is a tiny country which any significant nuclear strike would totally destroy.
I would suggest that your cold and calculating POV needs a bit more calculation.

Ignoramus said:

Those who advocate the cold and calculating POV from the standpoint of intelligence point out that it is most unwise to give the appearance of a cold and calculating POV. Sun T?zu gives the highest priority to the moral imperative. A careful reading of Sun T?zu makes clear that he is speaking of the perceived moral imperative, not the actual moral imperative.
The same is true of Niccolo Machiavelli. The Prince must appear to be mild, merciful, courteous, religious, and sincere, but to be actually so is a disadvantage. Therefore the real virtue is hypocrisy.
We live in an interlocked world. It is clear to an informed person that we have no real moral defense in our support of Israel and our invasion of the Mid-Eastern oil lands. This is naked real politick once one is removed from the American propaganda apparatus. That accounts for the numerous times the United States has stood practically alone in the UN where only the American veto stopped condemnation of Israel by the United Nations. It also explains why America?s invasion of Iraq was a solo operation except for a few committed allies, most of whom were operating against the desires of their public.
As our real power diminishes on the World Stage, we cannot really afford to palpably play the villain. Nazi Germany demonstrated the folly of that.
In the past, when we have fought major wars on the World Stage which culminated successfully, we could claim the moral imperative with a reasonable degree of success. In the Vietnamese war, American could not even convince its own people of its moral imperative. So, America lost in spite of never suffering a single significant military defeat.
In addition, we must not ignore America?s vulnerability on two fronts. One, our cities are exposed to the threat of a smuggled nuke against which, at the present, we have no real defense. Two, we have linked our fate to Israel?s fate, and Israel is a tiny country which any significant nuclear strike would totally destroy.
I would suggest that your cold and calculating POV needs a bit more calculation.

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Don't bite my head off, I was commenting on his post, not stating how I'd conduct policy.

Ignoramus said:

Those who advocate the cold and calculating POV from the standpoint of intelligence point out that it is most unwise to give the appearance of a cold and calculating POV. Sun T’zu gives the highest priority to the moral imperative. A careful reading of Sun T’zu makes clear that he is speaking of the perceived moral imperative, not the actual moral imperative.
The same is true of Niccolo Machiavelli. The Prince must appear to be mild, merciful, courteous, religious, and sincere, but to be actually so is a disadvantage. Therefore the real virtue is hypocrisy.
We live in an interlocked world. It is clear to an informed person that we have no real moral defense in our support of Israel and our invasion of the Mid-Eastern oil lands. This is naked real politick once one is removed from the American propaganda apparatus. That accounts for the numerous times the United States has stood practically alone in the UN where only the American veto stopped condemnation of Israel by the United Nations. It also explains why America’s invasion of Iraq was a solo operation except for a few committed allies, most of whom were operating against the desires of their public.
As our real power diminishes on the World Stage, we cannot really afford to palpably play the villain. Nazi Germany demonstrated the folly of that.
In the past, when we have fought major wars on the World Stage which culminated successfully, we could claim the moral imperative with a reasonable degree of success. In the Vietnamese war, American could not even convince its own people of its moral imperative. So, America lost in spite of never suffering a single significant military defeat.
In addition, we must not ignore America’s vulnerability on two fronts. One, our cities are exposed to the threat of a smuggled nuke against which, at the present, we have no real defense. Two, we have linked our fate to Israel’s fate, and Israel is a tiny country which any significant nuclear strike would totally destroy.
I would suggest that your cold and calculating POV needs a bit more calculation.

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You infer that only an informed person would support our relationship with Israel? I assume that means that your definition of informed means someone who thinks as you do, Ignoramus.

I'll only stoop to address one or two more of the confused thoughts in your above post.

One is your concern for the opinion of the U.N. The United States (and most of the world) would be better off if the U.S. withdrew from that worthless organization and converted the NYC building to condos.

Your weak comparison of the U.S. to Nazi Germany is so difficult to wrap my senile mind around, I'm almost typeless. But not quite. Despite the fact that we are stupid enough to attempt to build hospitals and schools in an enemy nation before subduing said nation, we are in no way comparable to World War Two Germany -- no genocide, no mass graves (at least not of our doing). Read a history book or two written prior to Carter's presidency, and then get back to me.

Self edited.

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David said:

Don't bite my head off, I was commenting on his post, not stating how I'd conduct policy.

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To once again quote Paul Newman?s final line from Cool Hand Luke, "What we've got here is a failure to communicate."
I assumed that you at least would understand English. I?m accustomed to others confusing my meaning.
This was not a personal attack on you. I found nothing offensive in your post. I was merely commenting on your comment. To wit.

But from a cold and calculating pov, too true I'm afraid.

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What I was trying to point out that even from the coldest and most calculating POV, it wasn?t true. After all, neither Niccolo Machiavelli nor Sun T?su could hardly be called moralists.
It?s getting a little old. What?s the point in posting if no one understands your posts? When I first arrived on this forum, I encountered someone who understood English. I didn?t realize he was an extreme anomaly, and now even he doesn?t seem to be around. Time to start looking for the promised land once more.

Ignoramus said:

It?s getting a little old. What?s the point in posting if no one understands your posts? When I first arrived on this forum, I encountered someone who understood English. I didn?t realize he was an extreme anomaly, and now even he doesn?t seem to be around. Time to start looking for the promised land once more.

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Cheer up. There is no place online or in real life where occasional misunderstandings don't occur. Ever been married? Ever raise teen-aged daughters? Ever dealt with elderly parents? Ever managed a business? If you answer yes to any of the above, you'll understand what I'm saying.

Heck, I have some brilliant friends in real life, and sometimes I have to ask them to restate their positions so I can understand what the hell they mean. And now and then after they've restated? I tell them they're still full of crap. Such is life.

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