Calls for Secession

ThirdTerm · Nov 13, 2012

Texas seceded from Mexico in 1836 but it was merged with the US within a decade because the republic was repeatedly attacked by Mexico and secession of one small state does not work in reality and 77,000 signatures collected so far are merely symbolic and Governor Perry did not approve the petitions to secede from the Union.

Wendy · Nov 13, 2012

I'd be happy, more than happy if we would just secede from Europe & the ME....since it seems as though we're on our way to joining them in that our gov't., especially the executive branch likes their "style".

myp · Nov 13, 2012

Wendy said:
I'd be happy, more than happy if we would just secede from Europe & the ME....since it seems as though we're on our way to joining them in that our gov't., especially the executive branch likes their "style".

Emulating and joining are two very different things. I also disagree- culturally and politically we are very different and I don't think our government is trying to emulate them, especially after the current Euro crisis.

Wendy · Nov 14, 2012

myp said:
Emulating and joining are two very different things. I also disagree- culturally and politically we are very different and I don't think our government is trying to emulate them, especially after the current Euro crisis.

& we do have a "cliff" that Obama doesn't seem to worry about....his campaign motto was "forward".
The seceding from Europe & the ME was said with tongue in cheek, however, I do believe that Obama does want to emulate Europe.

myp · Nov 14, 2012

Wendy said:
& we do have a "cliff" that Obama doesn't seem to worry about....his campaign motto was "forward".
The seceding from Europe & the ME was said with tongue in cheek, however, I do believe that Obama does want to emulate Europe.

Just because he likes some policies or concerns that they emphasize doesn't mean he is trying to emulate them. For example, most of the Western world is generally pro-free religion, but doesn't mean we are all trying to emulate eachother.

As for the cliff, you been watching the news lately? Both sides are talking about it.

Nemo · Nov 14, 2012

Secession? - What utter nonsense! Can any intelligent person even contemplate such a thought? Can even the most stupid person be willing to give up what he/she has in favor of (what?). It is the "what" that is never disclosed.

=Zoomer= · Nov 14, 2012

Nemo said:
Secession? - What utter nonsense! Can any intelligent person even contemplate such a thought? Can even the most stupid person be willing to give up what he/she has in favor of (what?). It is the "what" that is never disclosed.

Agreed! But I don't think anyone was trying to insinuate they are "intelligent"...

David · Nov 14, 2012

=Zoomer= said:
Agreed! But I don't think anyone was trying to insinuate they are "intelligent"...

I take that personally. Very little of the US is part of the Republic by choice and quite a few of the states that did join voluntarily did so with the understanding they could leave if the need arose. Calling conquered people unintelligent for not wanting to be a conquered people doesn't speak well for you.

myp · Nov 14, 2012

Nemo said:
Secession? - What utter nonsense! Can any intelligent person even contemplate such a thought? Can even the most stupid person be willing to give up what he/she has in favor of (what?). It is the "what" that is never disclosed.

It might not be rational, but then again maybe it is. The original US left the greatest empire on Earth, after all.

=Zoomer= · Nov 14, 2012

David said:
I take that personally. Very little of the US is part of the Republic by choice and quite a few of the states that did join voluntarily did so with the understanding they could leave if the need arose. Calling conquered people unintelligent for not wanting to be a conquered people doesn't speak well for you.

Sorry you took it personally~ I don't believe in generational sin when it comes to government, so I can't really comment!

David · Nov 14, 2012

=Zoomer= said:
Sorry you took it personally~ I don't believe in generational sin when it comes to government, so I can't really comment!

I'm a seccestionalist (and not because someone won an election

) myself and think all conquered nations and sovereign nations that joined voluntarily should be able to leave if they want. So basically the original colonies minus Vermont are the only states I recognize as indivisible.

=Zoomer= · Nov 14, 2012

David said:
I'm a seccestionalist (and not because someone won an election ) myself and think all conquered nations and sovereign nations that joined voluntarily should be able to leave if they want. So basically the original colonies minus Vermont are the only states I recognize as indivisible.

Personally, I don't recognize the right by decendents of "conquered" nations to secede on that basis. I do support the right of secession generally, but as a practical matter, I don't see a fair and equitable way to implement it short of disenfranchising millions of people.

I understand your approach to the topic, but where we differ is, I believe as time passes and later generations grow into new cultures, the effects of secession are vastly different on the later generations, and far less on the earlier ones.

Isn't it Ethan Allen that is considered the "bad guy" in Vermont's joining the Union?

David · Nov 14, 2012

=Zoomer= said:
Personally, I don't recognize the right by decendents of "conquered" nations to secede on that basis. I do support the right of secession generally, but as a practical matter, I don't see a fair and equitable way to implement it short of disenfranchising millions of people.

I understand your approach to the topic, but where we differ is, I believe as time passes and later generations grow into new cultures, the effects of secession are vastly different on the later generations, and far less on the earlier ones.

Isn't it Ethan Allen that is considered the "bad guy" in Vermont's joining the Union?

Tell that to Hawaii.

=Zoomer= · Nov 15, 2012

David said:
Tell that to Hawaii.

I sure will if they ever petition to secede~

David · Nov 15, 2012

=Zoomer= said:
I sure will if they ever petition to secede~

And they'll laugh at your argument. Hawaii isn't integrated into the US in any meaningful way.

tecoyah · Nov 15, 2012

David said:
And they'll laugh at your argument. Hawaii isn't integrated into the US in any meaningful way.

Hawaii does have quite a bit to lose should they decide to go it alone. Between tourism and public service they would stand to lose perhaps, half the economy. Though the native population retains much of it's own culture, the State itself is heavily reliant on being a part of the U.S.

=Zoomer= · Nov 15, 2012

David said:
And they'll laugh at your argument. Hawaii isn't integrated into the US in any meaningful way.

Apply your logic to Kentucky and see if they laugh...anyway, we're not discussing a topic of "absolutes".

Wendy · Nov 15, 2012

myp said:
Just because he likes some policies or concerns that they emphasize doesn't mean he is trying to emulate them. For example, most of the Western world is generally pro-free religion, but doesn't mean we are all trying to emulate eachother.

As for the cliff, you been watching the news lately? Both sides are talking about it.

& "Obamacare" doesn't emulate Western Europe"?
We lived in Europe for several years, & the similarities are here.
As for the cliff & both sides are talking about it. What's Obama saying? "Tax the wealthy"?

tecoyah · Nov 15, 2012

Wendy said:
& "Obamacare" doesn't emulate Western Europe"?
We lived in Europe for several years, & the similarities are here.
As for the cliff & both sides are talking about it. What's Obama saying? "Tax the wealthy"?

Obviously, you only watch one version of the news. Obama is saying far more than "Tax the Wealthy".

The president listed job creation and economic growth as his top priorities. While pledging to not raise taxes on most Americans, the president said spending cuts must be combined with “asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a little more in taxes.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...5ac666-2b7e-11e2-96b6-8e6a7524553f_story.html

Wendy · Nov 15, 2012

tecoyah said:
Obviously, you only watch one version of the news. Obama is saying far more than "Tax the Wealthy".

The president listed job creation and economic growth as his top priorities. While pledging to not raise taxes on most Americans, the president said spending cuts must be combined with “asking the wealthiest Americans to pay a little more in taxes.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...5ac666-2b7e-11e2-96b6-8e6a7524553f_story.html

You're absolutely correct in that....however, like "tax the wealthy" most or all of what he says is something I'd expect a muciferious wallydraggle to say.
His "tax the wealthy, because I will not allow the middle class to shoulder the debt ENTIRELY". Now what do you suppose he meant by "entirely", that maybe it won't be just "the wealthy"? Plus, what do you believe his taxes on the wealthy would accomplish without cutting spending? He said in the debates that "sequestration will not happen"....so what's the comparitively few $$ he'll get from the wealthy do?
Welcome to reality.

Calls for Secession

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