Do the Left and Right share any common values?

myp · Dec 30, 2012

bluefig said:
Yes, and whole cookbooks are written about salad making but that does not mean we cannot agree on what a salad is without writing a book. But, okay, I understand your view is that everything is too complex for discussion and any attempt at communication is a "false-reality." I get it, you don't have any ideas about commonalities across the political spectrum nor do you believe the that the spectrum can even be described. Please stop saying the same thing over and over again. Maybe someone else will have a comment. Or, are you just trying to fight with me? If so, I will stop commenting on my thread.

You have already admitted that your primary goal is not the truth as you actively try to avoid complexity. Well that isn't exactly conducive to the truth, is it? I'm not sure why you are getting defensive, I am just making a response to your ideas, not anything personal towards you. No one ever said that the complexity of things means we can't use them as terms properly in or as a topic for discussion- that is a point you fabricated from something you misunderstood.

And do you really think democracy is as simple as a salad?

tecoyah · Dec 30, 2012

bluefig said:
Dismissive and non-responsive, how disappointing. Why not clarify your meaning instead? It must be that communication is not your goal. Do you really believe the term Democracy is so complex that it cannot be defined without writing an essay or book?

Very well. My "Meaning" is far more simple than the subject matter.
There are many forms of Democracy, and each one is unique unto itself. Attempting to simplify something so complex in nature does not do the concept justice, and in my opinion damages the idea when done. To truly explain the intricacies of a democracy will indeed take many pages of thoughtful evaluation and explanation.

bluefig · Dec 30, 2012

Myp: Actually, simplifying concepts down to their foundational principles is necessary in order to grasp any concept truthfully. Avoiding the basic principles of any concept is a way of evading the truth. In a forum environment there is more than enough room to break down any idea, word or concept, it is just a matter of taking the time to clarify your meaning. Communication is my goal, as I have stated from the beginning and that includes truthfulness.

My defensiveness probably has something do to with your comment that you are likely to, "dismiss everything you (I) say as unimportant, uninformed, and opinionated hyperbole."

This rudeness makes free communication difficult, but I can see that communication is indeed not your goal but rather you, like so many, cultivate a strict adherence to the concept of blurry complexity so that you can always be "right" about everything since words and concepts can mean anything under the sun in your opinion. I suggest you practice focusing in on essential elements of a concept until you are able to see it's foundational principles.

I maintain: words mean something, philosophies mean something, concepts mean something real and concrete. The world of ideas is not cloudy and vague but is made up of distinct ideas that can be grasped by the human mind.

Tecoyah: Regardless of the many needlessly complex and academically created labels for Democracy, or Democracy types as you would say, there is a common denominator of them all: rule by the majority. If one type actually means something else, then it is not a type of Democracy but a word game created to confuse students and create an environment in which little knowledge or communication is possible. Just as you are attempting here.

tecoyah · Dec 31, 2012

bluefig said:
Tecoyah: Regardless of the many needlessly complex and academically created labels for Democracy, or Democracy types as you would say, there is a common denominator of them all: rule by the majority. If one type actually means something else, then it is not a type of Democracy but a word game created to confuse students and create an environment in which little knowledge or communication is possible. Just as you are attempting here.

I agree that certain aspects of a democracy must be met to achieve the label, I suppose our disagreement is in the detail that fill in a democratic Government once these basics are met. I am referring to the many differences in the pieces put in place to maintain the Democratic balance of societal powers within the established system.

Thus...complexity is added to every Democracy over time.

David · Dec 31, 2012

myp said:
What do you think etymology, semantics, and even parts of linguistics and theoretical lexicography are about? Language evolves. It is why we don't speak in the same English Shakespeare did. Words have various meanings in different contexts and from different viewpoints. Synonyms for one.

Shakespeare's 'English' was a bunch of slang.

myp · Dec 31, 2012

bluefig said:
Myp: Actually, simplifying concepts down to their foundational principles is necessary in order to grasp any concept truthfully. Avoiding the basic principles of any concept is a way of evading the truth. In a forum environment there is more than enough room to break down any idea, word or concept, it is just a matter of taking the time to clarify your meaning. Communication is my goal, as I have stated from the beginning and that includes truthfulness.

My defensiveness probably has something do to with your comment that you are likely to, "dismiss everything you (I) say as unimportant, uninformed, and opinionated hyperbole."

This rudeness makes free communication difficult, but I can see that communication is indeed not your goal but rather you, like so many, cultivate a strict adherence to the concept of blurry complexity so that you can always be "right" about everything since words and concepts can mean anything under the sun in your opinion. I suggest you practice focusing in on essential elements of a concept until you are able to see it's foundational principles.

I maintain: words mean something, philosophies mean something, concepts mean something real and concrete. The world of ideas is not cloudy and vague but is made up of distinct ideas that can be grasped by the human mind.

Tecoyah: Regardless of the many needlessly complex and academically created labels for Democracy, or Democracy types as you would say, there is a common denominator of them all: rule by the majority. If one type actually means something else, then it is not a type of Democracy but a word game created to confuse students and create an environment in which little knowledge or communication is possible. Just as you are attempting here.

You can still have effective communication with the existence [and acceptance] of complexity. It happens all the time. There is complexity in everything if you look hard enough. But to deny the complexity exists, is to deny the truth.

somenights · Dec 31, 2012

Absolutely, they both want to destroy the United States. It seems like they can never agree on anything, and when they do it's always the smallest possible compromise they can get by with. It is blasphemy and an insult the the American people.

tecoyah · Dec 31, 2012

Nice take....and agreed. Both seem a negative influence on progress.

bluefig · Jan 4, 2013

Aha! Seems, most people agree that the left and right do not have the best interests of the country at heart! Well, the people in power will not change in any noticeable way until the masses of people embrace reason to a much higher degree than they do currently. Let us work to help spread good ideas in any way we can.

schuzic · Jul 9, 2013

At the end of the day

The left and right both breath the same air. They both eat food and , at the end of the day, they both use phrases like "at the end of the day..."

John
The Standard

Road Warrior · Jul 10, 2013

myp said:
I don't really like the terms "left" and "right" to begin with, but in general I think most of the population shares a lot of common values including the love of country, freedom, their children, the future, and life.

Agreed. It's their approach to problem solving that differs. One favors the collective, the other the individual. One thinks the State should solve all problems and another local groups. Depending on the subject, this can change sides. Republicans, for example, usually don't like big government except when it comes to topics of their interest like immigration, gay marriage and the military. Democrats love big government but quickly switch to individual choice when it comes to abortion and gay marriage.

Both the Left/Democrats and the Right/Republicans (in the USA, at least) are authoritarian in their approach; they both want to tell everyone else what to do, what to think and what to believe is just and moral.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Do the Left and Right share any common values?

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