Evaluating Obama

Has Obama Done a Good Job as US president

  • Yes

    Votes: 1 11.1%
  • No

    Votes: 5 55.6%
  • Time Will Tell (Juries Still Out)

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Don't Know - No Answer

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Dec 2009
119
0
Canada
Internationally, he's crewed up with Iran and N. Korea but then I agreed with his Iran position myself (so I really can't complain being just as wrong) and you can't really risk it with N. Korea. Otherwise, best diplomatic president we've had in decades.

Domestically... Bush 2.0 with new and improved brain power!

I really appreciate his efforts into making strong relationships with others. I can tell you right now it's not only paying off, but other countries are thinking much more highly of the United States than the Bush Administration.

Bush increased the size of government drastically, increased government spending, and increased intervention in the markets- all things associated with modern American leftism. Just because someone says they are a conservative, doesn't mean they are.

Well just because someone's "left," does that make them a criminal? Just because someone does not fit in with your views, does that mean that you should not accept what they say? After all, the fascist governments of Hitler and Mussolini (ever heard of his name?) were almost exclusively on the far right, not the left.

Of the things I do support Obama for (other than the foreign policy), I do support the bill that will end the "Too Big to Fail" mindset. It was talked about on CNBC earlier today.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
I really appreciate his efforts into making strong relationships with others. I can tell you right now it's not only paying off, but other countries are thinking much more highly of the United States than the Bush Administration.

Not 100% on what you mean with this post. I get you're point but I'm confused as to how you meant to reply to me.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Well just because someone's "left," does that make them a criminal? Just because someone does not fit in with your views, does that mean that you should not accept what they say? After all, the fascist governments of Hitler and Mussolini (ever heard of his name?) were almost exclusively on the far right, not the left.
When did I say that? I was merely saying that Calvin's statement about having a bunch of right wingers in a row was wrong.

By the way, Hitler was a Nazi (National Socialist German Workers' Party), a leftist. And yes, I know who Mussolini is.

Of the things I do support Obama for (other than the foreign policy), I do support the bill that will end the "Too Big to Fail" mindset. It was talked about on CNBC earlier today.
"Too big to fail" thing is partly a result of moral hazard created by government, which would still exist with more intervention- perhaps even more so.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
When did I say that? I was merely saying that Calvin's statement about having a bunch of right wingers in a row was wrong.

By the way, Hitler was a Nazi (National Socialist German Workers' Party), a leftist. And yes, I know who Mussolini is.


"Too big to fail" thing is partly a result of moral hazard created by government, which would still exist with more intervention- perhaps even more so.

National Socialism isn't socialism. It was an alliance of German nationalists and socialists originally, hanse the name but by WW2 the leftist wing had been purged (from party and nation for the most part) and only the name remained as proof of their former existence. Hitler was of the nationalist wing, a rightist.

Now if you want to argue that fascism is leftist, I think we can have a bit of fun. :D An argument can be made for that if someone really believes that and is well educated in the ideology.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
National Socialism isn't socialism. It was an alliance of German nationalists and socialists originally, hanse the name but by WW2 the leftist wing had been purged (from party and nation for the most part) and only the name remained as proof of their former existence. Hitler was of the nationalist wing, a rightist.

Now if you want to argue that fascism is leftist, I think we can have a bit of fun. :D An argument can be made for that if someone really believes that and is well educated in the ideology.
In reality this whole left-right thing does nothing more than stir up confusion since historically people have looked at both sides differently and what one period saw in one side, another saw in the other. I've discussed this several times on this forum before and I'm sure you've seen at least one of those posts David, so I won't go on about it again. The argument for anyone being a leftist or rightest always exists and it is part of the reason why I try to avoid labeling myself as liberal, conservative, libertarian, or whatever as much as I can. I prefer to just say I believe in freedom.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
In reality this whole left-right thing does nothing more than stir up confusion since historically people have looked at both sides differently and what one period saw in one side, another saw in the other. I've discussed this several times on this forum before and I'm sure you've seen at least one of those posts David, so I won't go on about it again. The argument for anyone being a leftist or rightest always exists and it is part of the reason why I try to avoid labeling myself as liberal, conservative, libertarian, or whatever as much as I can. I prefer to just say I believe in freedom.

On this we agree. Wasn't there a thread on how pointless left-right politics was?
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
Sleep meds are kicking it but I wanted to quote this so I can come back later to expand on it. Sorry.

No problem.

I do have to ask, what more would you like to have seen on the health care bill?

A complete restructuring of how it is funded and how it is implemented.

Did you want more out of it?

Yes.


Abolishing Government funding of the bureaucratic sector, cutting insurance corporations out of Government funded healthcare, localisation of services, introduction of democratic controls, a guarantee of healthcare provision free at the point of use... there's more, but I'm pretty exhausted after work, right now.

I'm hesitant about the financial impact this is going to have on the taxpayers.

Exactly. Obama's bill will just increase the expense of healthcare, when more could be done for cheaper.
 
Jan 2010
172
26
Miami
Well quoting a number from thin air is meaningless. The myth of welfare being the issue derives from selfish lot that, follows Jesus but hates the idea of a good Samaritan but relish the idea of mass destruction.


Welfare programs are only as good as the people who run them. You might believe in utopias where the programs themselves could work in principal but I tend to be of the mind that perfection doesn't exist. This isn't something that a people can magically concoct. Not a single unfounded stereotype changes that... :\

Communism was supposed to make society a classless utopia too, and you see how that turned out... taking issue with where the blame goes seems like kind of a moot point to me.
 
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Apr 2010
105
0
In reality this whole left-right thing does nothing more than stir up confusion since historically people have looked at both sides differently and what one period saw in one side, another saw in the other. I've discussed this several times on this forum before and I'm sure you've seen at least one of those posts David, so I won't go on about it again. The argument for anyone being a leftist or rightest always exists and it is part of the reason why I try to avoid labeling myself as liberal, conservative, libertarian, or whatever as much as I can. I prefer to just say I believe in freedom.

But there needs to be a measurement system. Whether its metric or imperial matters not, but people have to be able to quickly pigeon hole. Even that Taxas congressman with all those crazy ideas is labelled a rightwinger, and his ideas are innovate and creative, if untenable. Not your typical rightwinger, but a rightwinger nevertheless.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
By the way, Hitler was a Nazi (National Socialist German Workers' Party), a leftist.

Hitler was not a leftist. Besides which, you're massively oversimplifying left and right wing, not to mention involving misconceptions on the nature of the two sides. It's not an economic line, it's not a Government intervention/no Government intervention line, or anything like that alone. Fascism is actually pretty centrist, by itself, but embodies a number of right wing principles, such as power and authority, meanwhile rejecting those on the left, such as liberty and equality.

A liberal, such as yourself, myp, embodies both left and right wing principles. Funnily enough, extremes on both sides. Fanatic support of capitalism is a right wing principle, while tolerance and civil liberties are left wing.

Someone that is considered right wing may support lowering taxes, for example, or raising them, for different reasons. While someone considered left wing may be the same.

Left and right wing just isn't that simplistic. And it's not void - though that doesn't mean people must adhere entirely to principles of either.

Communism was supposed to make society a classless utopia too, and you see how that turned out... taking issue with where the blame goes seems like kind of a moot point to me.

Several things:

*Communism is not utopic
*So-called attempts at communism were nothing of the sort
*I am not a communist
 
Jun 2010
157
0
The only need for measurement is for the purpose of marginalizing ideas country to ours. The left right of the US does not apply outside it. In fact it rarely applies inside it.
 
Jan 2010
172
26
Miami
Several things:

*Communism is not utopic
*So-called attempts at communism were nothing of the sort
*I am not a communist
Communism seeks to be utopic. Classless society, common ownership of means of production and abolition of private property (capital). That's pretty much what marxism, aka true communism entails.

To your second point, they were nothing of the sort because of a utopia's inherent flaw; assuming that leaders can never be corrupt.

To your third point... I'm glad you don't consider yourself one, but I never referred to you as one either...
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
Communism seeks to be utopic. Classless society, common ownership of means of production and abolition of private property (capital). That's pretty much what marxism, aka true communism entails.

To your second point, they were nothing of the sort because of a utopia's inherent flaw; assuming that leaders can never be corrupt.

To your third point... I'm glad you don't consider yourself one, but I never referred to you as one either...

1. I'd like a classless society, and it could hypothetically follow a revolution, provided that was the aim of the revolution. I'm for worker ownership of the means of production, and communalisation of utilities and services. I agree with the abolition of private property.

2. Communism, like my own ideal, envisions a world without leaders. I don't agree with benevolent dictatorship, neither does any communist I've yet to meet. I know a good few.

3. I was pre-empting you.

Indeed, I don't know why he made that point... :unsure:

Because almost everyone presumes I'm a communist, at first. Granted, I seem similar at first glance, but there are a number of important differences.
 
Jan 2010
172
26
Miami
I'll try to make this my last derail, but the systemic problem with that is such a society presupposes that all people can uniformly agree to that kind of society. I think the idea is noble, I just don't see it as practical given how people are.
 
Apr 2009
1,943
5
Disunited Queendom
I'll try to make this my last derail, but the systemic problem with that is such a society presupposes that all people can uniformly agree to that kind of society. I think the idea is noble, I just don't see it as practical given how people are.

Why does it require that? Everyone is different, unique, individual. Uniformity and conformity is the basis to a toxic society. No, not everyone has to agree, neither are they coerced to conform (which is different from capitalism, by the way). I see a system in which everyone is entirely devoid of individual thought to be completely undesirable - more, to be opposed.

Is there anyone here that actually believes capitalism is in any way natural, by the way? Do you seriously believe that gives you freedom? What a joke!

It's funny, I spend more time defending the commies than I do my own lot, which is interesting.

Anyway, enough for now, I've to get to work in a bit.
 
May 2010
138
0
http://www.dpw.state.pa.us/Resource...lReports/YearlyBudget/AnnualReport2010-11.pdf

General Wefare Funds 8.3 Billion

http://www.defense.gov/releases/release.aspx?releaseid=12652

663.8 billion

About 80 times more on Defense then Welfare..And AFAIK from these reports in the past the Cost of these wars are not included directly.

What are you talking about? FY 2008 budget for Fed is way bigger than that of the state of Pennsylvania.

Federal spending FY 2008: 2.902 Trillon (http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/budget/fy2008/budget.html)

Mandatory Spending FY 2008: 1.412 Trillon

Social Security - $544 billion
Medicare - $325 billion
Medicaid - $186 billion
All other mandatory programs - $357 billion. (Food stamps, unemployment compensation, etc)

=48.65% - ish.
 
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