For or Against Capital Punishment?

Delta · Apr 5, 2009

I just had this discussion with a few of my friends the other day... whether we were for or against capital punishment.

One of my friends said that he's against it because being put in prison for life is the worst punishment anyone could have. I disagree with this - a lot of the times murderers etc. don't serve their full sentence and get off on parole. They get free room, free meals, free education, etc.

For me, I think if someone kills someone, they should be sentenced to death in the same way they murdered the person. None of this, "we're going to peacefully kill you with an injection." If you want to knife someone and let them bleed out, then you get knifed and bled out.

We're far too easy on our criminals.

Sparks · Apr 6, 2009

I am against capital punishment, though it is based on frailty of the system, not because I really have a problem with putting people to death. I will paint with a somewhat broad brush here, but most legal systems do not guarantee justice. They only guarantee an outcome. Which usually will be in the favor of the state, which has great resources compared to most individuals. So the outcome is generally set ahead of time.

Too many innocent individuals have been convicted, too many times police and prosecutors with their own agendas have railroaded suspects to death row. Even a past Republican governor (George Ryan) of Illinois felt he had to commute the sentences of that states prisoners after an investigation found that a substantial portion had errors in their convictions, was applied unevenly, and sent innocent individuals to their doom.

I respect that Ryan, who started out as a very pro-capital punishment governor, but changed his views as he became more familiar with the system.

GekiDan · Apr 6, 2009

For me, I agree that the government need to pursue capital punishment on major crimes like murder, rape, and maybe drug related crimes. It was once implemented and done on a rape suspect.

But if you are on it, what do you think is the best punishment? Lethal Injection or Electric Chair?

The Parakeet · Apr 6, 2009

I'm pretty much ambivalent. I don't think there is necessarily a benefit either way. The costs are the same. One punishment isn't necessarily worse than the other (by default).

The reason I would support it is that I see capital punishment as simple expediency for a life sentence. If we sentence an innocent person to life in jail, then they will stay there for their life unless the charges are overturned on appeal. If we sentence an innocent man to death, then they will lose there life unless the charges are overturned on appeal. The difference isn't exactly shocking. The only benefit would be that there could be a major advance in forensics that would exonerate them, but I don't see another "DNA" breakthrough coming along.

We are too kind to many of them though. Most of the people we've put to death definitely didn't deserve a peaceful passing.

Sparks · Apr 7, 2009

A lot of people didn't see the DNA breakthrough coming in the first place. I am not sure I would use that as my primary justification. Don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with putting child killers, serial murders and that sort down. I have a problem with how the legal system works and how the law is applied. Rich guys don't die. That sucks. Innocent guys go to jail because cops and/or a prosecutor needs a conviction. A little too often for me to be comfortable with it.

But if I was going to put someone down on a methodical basis, I think beheading works fine. I was sorry to see France do away with the guillotine.

Delta · Apr 7, 2009

Sparks said:
A lot of people didn't see the DNA breakthrough coming in the first place. I am not sure I would use that as my primary justification. Don't misunderstand me, I have no problem with putting child killers, serial murders and that sort down. I have a problem with how the legal system works and how the law is applied. Rich guys don't die. That sucks. Innocent guys go to jail because cops and/or a prosecutor needs a conviction. A little too often for me to be comfortable with it.

But if I was going to put someone down on a methodical basis, I think beheading works fine. I was sorry to see France do away with the guillotine.

Yea, I mean, if it were to come back into effect... the system would need a complete revamping. As of right now, I admit it isn't effective... that's not to say it couldn't be. It's true about the rich guys too. As far as I'm concerned, at least here in Canada, our criminal justice system is a joke.

Guillotine works for me too - public displays are always the best

GekiDan · Apr 7, 2009

Delta said:
Guillotine works for me too - public displays are always the best

Publicly? Well... For me, I don't want someone get killed infront of me and it's also not a good view for children. Someone will get traumatized by that incident.

Sparks · Apr 8, 2009

One can always turn their head or close their eyes. However, public execution often becomes less a deterrent than a form of entertainment. Widely publicized executions might actually engender crime as individuals vied for their few seconds of fame.

The Parakeet · Apr 8, 2009

Guys...I think he was joking.

Everyone knows firing squad is the best anyway

.

GekiDan · Apr 8, 2009

The Parakeet said:
Guys...I think he was joking.

Everyone knows firing squad is the best anyway .

Eh?!

Just like the Philippines' National Hero Jose Rizal?
Well... I think, in my own opinion, anyone who wants to be executed, wants to have a painless death.

Sparks · Apr 9, 2009

Firing squad is considered a rather noble end, apparently. I remember it being requested by some individuals rather than a hanging in a number of books and movies.

Rizal is such a complex and talented character. I have been reading a number of books concerning him and the period he lived, before I restart Noli and Fili (his two famous novels). A sad end to such brilliance.

And then one might choose is the Garrote, as used against Father Burgos and his compatriots. Now that would be hard for me to swallow. I am happy that Spain (and the Philippines) retired that system. Even worse is the auto-da-fe which might help with the power shortage if done at night.

Okay, I'm stopping on this topic now.

omej · Apr 10, 2009

I voted "for" in the poll. While innocent people have been executed before (and it's a real tragedy), we have quite a lengthy appeal process setup. Getting and having the death penalty administered often takes decades. Not to mention that DNA evidence is getting better every year, how many people have we exonerated and caught using new forensic methods?

While letting somebody sit in jail and be miserable for the rest of their life, they don't 'suffer' as much as you think they do. They get better treatment then some law-abiding Americans (top of the line health care). Some homeless people purposely get themselves sent to jail in the winter just for a warm place and food.

Capital punishment should still only be reserved for the most heinous crimes but it has been around and should always be around.

GekiDan · Apr 10, 2009

omeythehomie said:
Some homeless people purposely get themselves sent to jail in the winter just for a warm place and food.

I really laugh at the statement. So those are happening? What crimes do they usually do?

omeythehomie said:
Capital punishment should still only be reserved for the most heinous crimes but it has been around and should always be around.

Yes. You are definitely right. Crimes such as murder, rape, drug related incidents and other crimes that leads their victims to death.

omej · Apr 10, 2009

GekiDan said:
I really laugh at the statement. So those are happening? What crimes do they usually do?

Yeah, I remember talking to a police officer about it one time. A homeless person will pick up a brick, throw it through a window and wait for the cops to come and arrest him.

Delta · Apr 10, 2009

omeythehomie said:
Some homeless people purposely get themselves sent to jail in the winter just for a warm place and food.

Hell, I'd do the same thing. I would probably go at it a bit differently than just throwing a brick through the window. I'd at least try to "better" my life in some way

... that way if I don't get caught, all the better and if I do, then I'll just be living in jail instead.

GekiDan · Apr 10, 2009

omeythehomie said:
Yeah, I remember talking to a police officer about it one time. A homeless person will pick up a brick, throw it through a window and wait for the cops to come and arrest him.

Well... I really laugh hard on that story of yours. I can't really imagine how they do it.

But how long will they going to be on jail? Throughout the winter or longer? The only disadvantage of that is they will have criminal records, which is bad if you are looking for a job.

Delta · Apr 11, 2009

GekiDan said:
Well... I really laugh hard on that story of yours. I can't really imagine how they do it. But how long will they going to be on jail? Throughout the winter or longer? The only disadvantage of that is they will have criminal records, which is bad if you are looking for a job.

Most like a 3-6 month jail sentence I would assume. I can't really see most homeless people having a problem with a criminal record... they're obviously homeless for a reason and so, most likely already have existing circumstances which makes it difficult to find a job. It's not too often you see a homeless person out job hunting either.

GekiDan · Apr 12, 2009

Delta said:
Most like a 3-6 month jail sentence I would assume. I can't really see most homeless people having a problem with a criminal record... they're obviously homeless for a reason and so, most likely already have existing circumstances which makes it difficult to find a job. It's not too often you see a homeless person out job hunting either.

Well... I guess you are right. Do homeless people their looked like street people here in the Philippines. Like they have grease on their face or have dirty clothes? And where do they usually stay? At park or under the bridges?

Delta · Apr 13, 2009

GekiDan said:
Well... I guess you are right. Do homeless people their looked like street people here in the Philippines. Like they have grease on their face or have dirty clothes? And where do they usually stay? At park or under the bridges?

We kind of have all types here. Some as you say look rather dirty and sleep in the parks. Some stay in homeless shelters. Others I can't really tell if they are actually homeless or they just beg for money for kicks. A few years ago the media did a story on a beggar who wasn't actually homeless - it was something ridiculous like she made $35-40,000 a year begging on the streets in Oregon. I'm pretty sure there was a similar amount made (50k?) by someone in Toronto. Of course these are exceptions rather than the norm... I read another story stating that the average income in Toronto for beggars was about $600 a month and another story from the US that the average was $100-200 a month.

GekiDan · Apr 13, 2009

Well... 30-50k dollars? That's more than the annual income of a government office worker here. And even more than that of a freelancer. If it's that so, I want to be like them. Joke!

For or Against Capital Punishment?

For or Against Capital Punishment?

For

Against

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Delta

Sparks

GekiDan

The Parakeet

Sparks

Delta

GekiDan

Sparks

The Parakeet

GekiDan

Sparks

omej

GekiDan

omej

Delta

GekiDan

Delta

GekiDan

Delta

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