GAS ??? can you prove it?

falcondule said:

It would be useful if some real evidence could surface proving that GAS CHAMBERS were used at Auschwitz ,to eliminate certain groups who unfortunately had been sent there to work.

To-date nothing exists to prove this charge ,despite the best efforts of many teams of forensic scientists to prove their existence one way or the other.

keep in mind that it would be an easy thing to prove if gas had been used to exterminate people .

prussic gas ,the only gas that could have been possible to use in mass extermination within the walls of a gas chamber of whatever size has a 200 year lifespan and cannot be hid or washed away.

No sign of gas usage has ever been determined.

but this calumny is still tossed at the german wehrmacht and Germany in general for committing this unproved atrocity during the 2nd. war.

When will people wise up and realize that this is done to support other dubious claims about the HOLOCAUST that is becoming with time nothing but a HOLOHOAX!

And this in order to gain leverage in the public arena and to solicit sympathy for Israel among the general public and in congress so as to turn a blind eye to the very real atrocities being committed everyday in GAZA and the west bank to the palestinian people.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

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As the evidence is not only easily obtained, but clearly well accepted by those who manage to think......this is the only reply you deserve.

falcondule said:

It would be useful if some real evidence could surface proving that GAS CHAMBERS were used at Auschwitz ,to eliminate certain groups who unfortunately had been sent there to work.

To-date nothing exists to prove this charge ,despite the best efforts of many teams of forensic scientists to prove their existence one way or the other.

keep in mind that it would be an easy thing to prove if gas had been used to exterminate people .

prussic gas ,the only gas that could have been possible to use in mass extermination within the walls of a gas chamber of whatever size has a 200 year lifespan and cannot be hid or washed away.

No sign of gas usage has ever been determined.

but this calumny is still tossed at the german wehrmacht and Germany in general for committing this unproved atrocity during the 2nd. war.

When will people wise up and realize that this is done to support other dubious claims about the HOLOCAUST that is becoming with time nothing but a HOLOHOAX!

And this in order to gain leverage in the public arena and to solicit sympathy for Israel among the general public and in congress so as to turn a blind eye to the very real atrocities being committed everyday in GAZA and the west bank to the palestinian people.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

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The above revels the need for a 'Thanks but no thanks' button.

falcondule said:

No gas was ever used to destroy any group of people in the camps. I give you my word of honor ;and I stake my reputation on it as an officer in the Waffen SS

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I give you my word as a Klingon warrior that the waffen ss ceased to exist past. 1945

falcondule said:

It would be useful if some real evidence could surface proving that GAS CHAMBERS were used at Auschwitz ,to eliminate certain groups who unfortunately had been sent there to work.

To-date nothing exists to prove this charge ,despite the best efforts of many teams of forensic scientists to prove their existence one way or the other.

keep in mind that it would be an easy thing to prove if gas had been used to exterminate people .

prussic gas ,the only gas that could have been possible to use in mass extermination within the walls of a gas chamber of whatever size has a 200 year lifespan and cannot be hid or washed away.

No sign of gas usage has ever been determined.

but this calumny is still tossed at the german wehrmacht and Germany in general for committing this unproved atrocity during the 2nd. war.

When will people wise up and realize that this is done to support other dubious claims about the HOLOCAUST that is becoming with time nothing but a HOLOHOAX!

And this in order to gain leverage in the public arena and to solicit sympathy for Israel among the general public and in congress so as to turn a blind eye to the very real atrocities being committed everyday in GAZA and the west bank to the palestinian people.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

Click to expand...

True enough, as all my research indicates. What really baffles me, though, is how anyone can ignore the simple fact that people have been sentenced to years in prison for nothing more than questioning the "holocaust"! How does this bit of history rank, alone among all other bits of history, as "unquestionable under pain of imprisonment"? How does this ridiculous state of affairs NOT throw up a huge red flag? Or, maybe it does, and has, eh?

There's a conspiracy at work here alright but it's not whether or not gas was used. What I'd like to know is who faked all of the records? Someone had to have faked the construction plans for the camps and for the gas chambers, someone had to have faked the train schedules, someone had to have faked all of the purchase orders, someone had to have faked all of the testimony not only from surviving sonderkommandos but also from former SS officers who worked in the death camp section of the KZs. That's a lot of faking, isn't it?

William said:

There's a conspiracy at work here alright but it's not whether or not gas was used. What I'd like to know is who faked all of the records? Someone had to have faked the construction plans for the camps and for the gas chambers, someone had to have faked the train schedules, someone had to have faked all of the purchase orders, someone had to have faked all of the testimony not only from surviving sonderkommandos but also from former SS officers who worked in the death camp section of the KZs. That's a lot of faking, isn't it?

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What "faking" are you talking about? There are no records of people being gassed to death. Construction plans do not show gas chambers for anything except delousing. Train schedules, irrelevant; purchase orders, irrelevant. False testimony has been proven. Bare naked strawman much?

Tell me why historical investigation should be a crime.

Mordrid said:

What "faking" are you talking about? There are no records of people being gassed to death.

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There are records of the "production" levels of the chambers, an obvious euphemism for an act the Nazis knew was in violation of international law and any standard of moral conduct by government.

Mordrid said:

Construction plans do not show gas chambers for anything except delousing.

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They show gas chambers. Your delousing argument doesn't pass the smell test. If they were strictly for delousing then why separate the new arrivals? And how come many of them were never seen again? And how did their hair end up in socks for the Kreigsmarine? What were the ovens for and why did local residents report them burning 24/7 ? Forget I asked, I already know what you're going to say, you're going to say everyone lied.

Mordrid said:

Train schedules, irrelevant; purchase orders, irrelevant.

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In a discussion about Jews being gassed your position is that train schedules showing pick ups in the ghettos and arrivals at death camps are irrelevant and that purchase orders for Zyklon B for those same camps are irrelevant? I guess killing people and then burning them is one way to delouse but it's not the way I would have chosen.

Mordrid said:

False testimony has been proven. Bare naked strawman much?

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I'd like to see exactly what you're talking about here. Post a link and I'll be happy to read it.

Mordrid said:

Tell me why historical investigation should be a crime.

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I don't think it should be a crime, in fact I think some people may have a strong point when they say that the 6 million Jews gassed number is inflated, I also think it's wrong to imprison someone for stating an opinion and Europeans, especially the Germans, need to get over this and move on. And some other people need to accept the fact that evidence of a comprehensive German plan to remove Jews from the Reich exists.

William said:

I don't think it should be a crime, in fact I think some people may have a strong point when they say that the 6 million Jews gassed number is inflated, I also think it's wrong to imprison someone for stating an opinion and Europeans, especially the Germans, need to get over this and move on. And some other people need to accept the fact that evidence of a comprehensive German plan to remove Jews from the Reich exists.

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Certainly, the Germans made a concerted effort to remove Jews from the Reich. But even if mass gassings/cremations were logistically feasible, it doesn't make much sense to me to expend valuable resources to destroy a valuable resource: slave labor. The Germans were nothing if not efficient; and gassings/cremations are horrendously inefficient. When sources of conflicting information seem comparably authoritative, I have to rely on common sense to tilt the balance.

Mordrid said:

Certainly, the Germans made a concerted effort to remove Jews from the Reich. But even if mass gassings/cremations were logistically feasible, it doesn't make much sense to me to expend valuable resources to destroy a valuable resource: slave labor. The Germans were nothing if not efficient; and gassings/cremations are horrendously inefficient. When sources of conflicting information seem comparably authoritative, I have to rely on common sense to tilt the balance.

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I agree, I do the same thing. Many of the KZ didn't even have gas chambers, they weren't death camps. However, people who weren't fit to work didn't go to those camps and clothing, food, and medical attention for people who can't work doesn't seem very efficient to me.

If you've got that link proving the Holocaust to be a hoax I'd love to see it.

William said:

If you've got that link proving the Holocaust to be a hoax I'd love to see it.

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You know I never said any such thing. It is intellectually dishonest to so grossly misrepresent my position. If you care to you'll make a research study of the matter and, in so doing, encounter the same information I did, and then make your own conclusions. I suspect you already have, to the extent that satisfies you.

Mordrid said:

You know I never said any such thing. It is intellectually dishonest to so grossly misrepresent my position. If you care to you'll make a research study of the matter and, in so doing, encounter the same information I did, and then make your own conclusions. I suspect you already have, to the extent that satisfies you.

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In debate...when one makes a claim they "Should" provide some level of data that backs is up. If by chance they decide not to do so, it is expected that they will be asked the reasoning behind this failure.

To then ask the opponent to provide this data they have questioned in an automatic failure of the process.

Mordrid said:

You know I never said any such thing. It is intellectually dishonest to so grossly misrepresent my position. If you care to you'll make a research study of the matter and, in so doing, encounter the same information I did, and then make your own conclusions. I suspect you already have, to the extent that satisfies you.

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What you said was false testimony laid bare. I took that to mean that you believe the Holocaust didn't happen. If you think you can make a case that your words should be taken any way other than that feel free.

Aufgeblassen said:

What about the huge piles of bones found at Dachau?

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It couldn't possibly have been the Nazis ...a troll midden perhaps?

tecoyah said:

In debate...when one makes a claim they "Should" provide some level of data that backs is up. If by chance they decide not to do so, it is expected that they will be asked the reasoning behind this failure.

To then ask the opponent to provide this data they have questioned in an automatic failure of the process.

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Debate? This is a self-described "discussion" forum. The obvious absence of anything that might be construed as "debate" at this site is further validation of the "discussion" nature of this forum.

It seems to me entirely appropriate to expect the "opponent" to provide proof as the title of this thread is "GAS??? can you prove it?" All I've seen so far is curt, mean-spirited ridicule. When I attempted to use ridicule as a rhetorical device elsewhere here I was shut down. There appears to be a double-standard in play here.

No matter. The simple fact is debate criteria are not required for civil discussion.

Well for starters, let's go with this, it's Wikipedia but we can get more advanced if you'd like:

Criticism of Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deniers have said for years that physical evidence is lacking because they have seen no holes in the roof of the Birkenau gas chamber where the Zyklon was poured in. (In some of the gas chambers the Zyklon B was poured in through the roof, while in others it was thrown in through the windows.) The roof was dynamited at war's end, and today lies broken in pieces, but three of the four original holes were positively identified in a recent paper. Their location in the concrete matches with eyewitness testimony, aerial photos from 1944, and a ground photo from 1943. The physical evidence shows unmistakably that the Zyklon holes were cast into the concrete when the building was constructed.[35]

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From Adolf Hitler:

Once I really am in power, my first and foremost task will be the annihilation of the Jews. As soon as I have the power to do so, I will have gallows built in rows—at the Marienplatz in Munich, for example—as many as traffic allows. Then the Jews will be hanged indiscriminately, and they will remain hanging until they stink; they will hang there as long as the principles of hygiene permit. As soon as they have been untied, the next batch will be strung up, and so on down the line, until the last Jew in Munich has been exterminated. Other cities will follow suit, precisely in this fashion, until all Germany has been completely cleansed of Jews.[9]

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That's only my opening salvo, if you want to dance with me you'd better be ready. Your delousing argument is obvious crap, if that were really the case then every camp would have had gas chambers but most didn't. People like you need to be watched carefully.