I don't suppose you understand that by using the Nazi reference your opinion becomes diminished quite a bit?
To me at least, attempting to equate this unfortunate situation to what was done in WWII is nothing short of hyperbole and ignorance.
I don't suppose you understand that by using the Nazi reference your opinion becomes diminished quite a bit?
To me at least, attempting to equate this unfortunate situation to what was done in WWII is nothing short of hyperbole and ignorance.
I regard zionism as deriving from the same origins in racist German nationalism as National Socialism and as heavily influenced by its sister movement. Far too many people suppose that if some children called Smith were once abused, it gives some quite different people called Smith the right to abuse other people's children forever. The American 'Christian' support for the deliberate murder of little children is peculiarly disgusting in the light of Jesus's known views and the descent of the Palestinians from his people. I cannot bear to communicate with such people on this subject, so I want to have nothing more to do with this thread.
No worries, we won't go in.
I don't think it's for that sole reason. The Government did it because it will protect a million people from unacceptable terror and danger. As for the timing, yes, I think that's partially to do with the elections.
No, the end goal is an independent Palestinian state.
Apartheid is pushing it too.
Can you please all stop with the Nazi analogies. It's incredibly insulting to any Jew, especially considering the way it diminishes the Holocaust.
Zionism is comparable to Indian nationalism and Zionists eventually turned against their colonial masters in the 1940s as the British government leaned towards restricting Jewish immigration to Palestine. Upon India's independence, Muslims were forcefully expelled from non-Muslim neighbourhoods and they ended up forming their own country called Pakistan and a violent population exchange took place between India and Pakistan and the situation in Palestine is another unresolved colonial issue associated with the fall of the British Empire and it's also a very sensitive issue concerning all parties from evangelical Christians to Islamic extremists because the fate of Jerusalem is at stake.
Last edited:
Accurate and telling. Unfortunately, both Pakistan and Palestine are having a difficult time adjusting to the realities of a world advancing toward an opposing mentality to the relatively limited mindset imposed by dogma.
I see the old ways of warfare and tribal hatred being a guiding force for much of the middle east while western technology and societal evolution has made the opposing Christianity mindset almost irrelevant. Until Islam does the same...there will be endless conflict and a sect mentality. This will prevent the needed "Growing Up" stage from advancing.
Why not genocide? Occupation isn't the end goal, and neither is annexing land with breathing Palestinians on it. Israel is just waiting for an opportunity.
If they want genocide, why did they agree to stop shooting and open up the border?
Israel needs the cover of a major, extended war to commit genocide.
Those objecting to the G-word appear to be just trying to defend Israel without regard for reality. Look at Dirk saying the end goal (for Israel) independent Palestinian state. But, unless I fall off the roof and land on my head, you would't really expect me to believe that, would you?
I think we can put this thread into the conspiracy section now.
Well, for 80% of Israelis, a Palestinian state certainly is the end-goal. Even the right-wing parties accept that. לכוד, the main player in the coalition, and Netanyahu's own party, wants a demilitarised Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. קדימה, the moderate progressive party, the largest party, incidentally, and official Opposition party, wants to immediately create a provisional Palestinian state in the West Bank and work from there. Even ישראל ביתנו (furthest right) want a Palestinian state (but they have a frankly racist idea of where to go from there). Then there are עבודה and עצמעות, the social democratic parties, מרצ, the socialists, and חד''ש, the communists. All of which support a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. All of these parties have seets in the Knesset (our democratic parliament). I would say we are closer now to creating a Palestinian state than ever before, especially since Abu Mazen has proven himself a partner for peace. A state is inevitable, as far as I am concerned. It's a matter of when - especially since the prospect of another right-wing coalition after the next elections in January will mean a lower likelihood of sitting down and talking with the Palestinians.
Dirk, et al,
Well, maybe!
I think that, outside the pro-Palestinian contingent - who will seldom change their mind, the two-state solution is a generally accepted outcome.
I don't think that the Palestinian people, especially in Gaza and the West Bank, really want peace, the establishment of a state that they can work, build and make prosperous. It seems that they just want the status quo of continued violence.
I had to chuckle the other day when the news reported that HAMAS was complaining that the Israel military response marked an "escalation in the conflict." It was my understanding that HAMAS opened fire first!
If you don't want pounded, you shouldn't throw the first punch.
Most Respectfully,
R
Well, maybe!
(COMMENT)
I think that, outside the pro-Palestinian contingent - who will seldom change their mind, the two-state solution is a generally accepted outcome.
I don't think that the Palestinian people, especially in Gaza and the West Bank, really want peace, the establishment of a state that they can work, build and make prosperous. It seems that they just want the status quo of continued violence.
I had to chuckle the other day when the news reported that HAMAS was complaining that the Israel military response marked an "escalation in the conflict." It was my understanding that HAMAS opened fire first!
If you don't want pounded, you shouldn't throw the first punch.
Most Respectfully,
R
Israel has had 40-ish years to allow, or unilaterally create, a Palestinian state. Or, even turn the land over the the neighbors that the land was originally taken from. Or, annex it. They have not done so.
Many Zionists admit that that they believe the land belongs to Israel. They just don't want the Palestinians on the land. Nope, no Conspiracy Theory. Just good ol' Zionist supremacist religion. That's the foundation for genocide. The only thing holding back Israel is lack of opportunity, sufficient cover.
Public rhetoric is for a Palestinian state, but Israel's behavior doesn't match the rhetoric. Also, Israel has had plenty of time to pacify the Palestinians, but has chosen not to do that.
Though Israel most certainly shares the blame for the violence and political stalemate in the area...they are far from alone in this. Both sides seem intent on destroying each other, and the tit for tat destruction makes peace (or a Palestinian State), unlikely at this point.
It seems to me that laying the responsibility for the current mess squarely at the feet of one side does not take into account the history of this region. Once we take in the last 60 or so years of this area it becomes relatively clear.
http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0107652.html
Cyprus s also one of the issues associated with the fall of the British Empire in ME and still remains unresolved and doesn't look like to be resolved in thenear future. This kind disputes require more times for solution maybe.
I disagree, I think that what the Palestinian people generally agree on is that they want peace - at least in the West Bank. And I think some are getting so desperate for it that they are willing to agree to just about anything that they get left alone. That's not necessarily a good thing - they deserve to live in peace and they deserve their own state.
Just realised that I forgot to quote the others. I'll address them in a separate post.
Unfortunately for the Palestinian people, the government they voted in seems to care little what they might hope for, or any reasonable peace. When we combine the new right wing mentality of Israeli leadership with the inability of Hamas to evolve out of a tribal violence mentality...there seems little hope of compromise.
Added to this already screwed up relationship is a war on terror.....which Hamas has gained the reputation and designation as.
Dirk, et al,
There is a big difference between something like freedom, prosperity and peace as a way of life that a people "want," - and - something a people need to work towards and "deserve" by virtue of their deeds.
Yes, the people of Gaza and the West Bank deserve a nation consistant with the type of government, diplomatic policies, and economic leadership which they fought for, supported, and voted into power to represent their ideals, goals and objectives. In that respect I agree.
Most Respectfully,
R
There is a big difference between something like freedom, prosperity and peace as a way of life that a people "want," - and - something a people need to work towards and "deserve" by virtue of their deeds.
(COMMENT)
Yes, the people of Gaza and the West Bank deserve a nation consistant with the type of government, diplomatic policies, and economic leadership which they fought for, supported, and voted into power to represent their ideals, goals and objectives. In that respect I agree.
Most Respectfully,
R
Similar threads
