healthcare issue

DodgeFB · Jan 21, 2010

cjaneposc said:
thank you for your replies i really need it and it helped me have a view of the issue not just from news but from citizens itself. it is a great help to me..

Always glad to help when I can. Most of the time I feel like an "old joke" when giving my opinion to young people.:unsure:

myp · Jan 21, 2010

If you need another opinion from an American citizen feel free to take mine. I believe that this plan only plays into corporate interests and it does nothing to actually reduce the price of health care, it just gives more customers to the insurance companies at taxpayer cost, while at the same time reducing choices for American consumers and adding a bureaucracy to the health care system.

I would much rather see real change, in a move towards the free market. There are several things that can be done including opening up insurance competition across state lines (currently it is illegal to sell insurance across state lines, which has led to higher prices and less choices for American consumers) as well as easing licensing laws and by stopping the tax incentives that favor certain parts of the market- especially employer-purchased care. I would also seek some sort of tort reform.

deanhills · Jan 21, 2010

myp said:
If you need another opinion from an American citizen feel free to take mine. I believe that this plan only plays into corporate interests and it does nothing to actually reduce the price of health care.

Totally agreed. The mere fact that there are over thousand pages of legal wording in the Bill that people had to puzzle over says it all. Dodge has a really good point as this is where it has already started. It will probably take ages for the people who have to implement the Bill one day (if it sees the day of light and hopefully it does not) to figure out exactly what it said, or meant to say. Not to mention all the promises and deal making behind the scenes that also have to be administrated and implemented, perhaps even by a completely different administration that may not understand or even refuse to understand what the meaning of it had been. Nothing is transparent about this Bill, as YES, this is not a Bill that is going to bring healthcare cost down. People are being deliberately confused/conned about thinking that way. They are also deliberately being confused/conned into thinking they are going to get a Canadian/NHS type health care system. Bottomline, people do not have a clue about what they are going to get as most of it is jumbled up by marketing messages from Obama and the media.

David · Jan 22, 2010

myp said:
If you need another opinion from an American citizen feel free to take mine. I believe that this plan only plays into corporate interests and it does nothing to actually reduce the price of health care, it just gives more customers to the insurance companies at taxpayer cost, while at the same time reducing choices for American consumers and adding a bureaucracy to the health care system.

The above is something even a crazy socialist like me can agree with.

Obama is just playing into corporate interests. At least if he was simply naive it wouldn't be so bad but he's doing in on purpose!

Dirk · Jan 22, 2010

cjaneposc said:
i said this because your country [US] is known for being a welfare state..

Yes, their country is a welfare state. But you miss the distinction. They only give free hand-outs to rich people.

deanhills · Jan 23, 2010

David said:
Obama is just playing into corporate interests. At least if he was simply naive it wouldn't be so bad but he's doing in on purpose!

Most of the medical healthcare is in the hands of corporations, possibly you mean selected corporate interests such as the insurance companies, and those in business of selling and administrating healthcare insurance?

Dirk · Jan 23, 2010

deanhills said:
Most of the medical healthcare is in the hands of corporations, possibly you mean selected corporate interests such as the insurance companies, and those in business of selling and administrating healthcare insurance?

I think we all really need to remember that the insurance companies supported Obama's reforms from the beginning and helped fund Obama's publicity mission for his reforms.

deanhills · Jan 23, 2010

Dirk said:
I think we all really need to remember that the insurance companies supported Obama's reforms from the beginning and helped fund Obama's publicity mission for his reforms.

Right, including Obama helped bail them out when he started as President in January of last year. He is their BIG buddy.

DodgeFB · Jan 24, 2010

deanhills said:
Right, including Obama helped bail them out when he started as President in January of last year. He is their BIG buddy.

Yes, he is so much to so many!

Kyuubi · Jan 29, 2010

myp said:
If you need another opinion from an American citizen feel free to take mine. I believe that this plan only plays into corporate interests and it does nothing to actually reduce the price of health care, it just gives more customers to the insurance companies at taxpayer cost, while at the same time reducing choices for American consumers and adding a bureaucracy to the health care system

This has been my most fundamental pet peeve with the universal health care system :\

People I speak to in countries with UHC would likely disagree, but I take issue with adding in government to the fray because we hold elections every four years and we at times get well-intended candidates and at others incompetent ones. Extreme cases ar Venezuela where while life expectancy increased in many cases, look at what they lost in individual rights. Fact is, you get the wrong guy in power and then that policy has much farther reaching effects. I could be a pessimist with that but hey, people like Chavez are often VOTED in. I prefer to leave wide reaching policies leaned more in the hands of the free market with only the bare necessities in which government is required

David · Jan 29, 2010

Kyuubi said:
This has been my most fundamental pet peeve with the universal health care system :\

People I speak to in countries with UHC would likely disagree, but I take issue with adding in government to the fray because we hold elections every four years and we at times get well-intended candidates and at others incompetent ones. Extreme cases ar Venezuela where while life expectancy increased in many cases, look at what they lost in individual rights. Fact is, you get the wrong guy in power and then that policy has much farther reaching effects. I could be a pessimist with that but hey, people like Chavez are often VOTED in. I prefer to leave wide reaching policies leaned more in the hands of the free market with only the bare necessities in which government is required

And Chavez keeps getting reelected. The people love him, the rich minority doesn't and while he's worse at FA then Bush, domestically he isn't 1/2 bad.

Now is he the best they could do? HELL... NO!!!!!!! He's still an improvement over the fascists however.

Kyuubi · Jan 29, 2010

I'm still not sure where the improvement is necessarily when crime rates have skyrocketed and freedom of speech isn't so much. :\
They've had a ton of issues with infrastructure repairs as well which have disenchanted many of his supporters. Point is, when something that screwy starts happening and government is the sole provider and management of those services where are your alternatives? Sort of my point with health care even if the current system here isn't good (doesn't mean I DON'T want to see reforms). Call it pessimistic but I prefer we reform the market system to improve healthcare before we delve into a strictly government sponsored system.

deanhills · Feb 5, 2010

Looks as though Obama has learned a few lessons. He is changing his tone on the health care reform bill, in at least allowing Congress to decide on it. He is no longer "selling" it or "urging" everyone to get on the bandwagon, but saying Congress will decide, and that once a decision has been made, that that would be the people's wish:

"I think it's very important for us to have a methodical, open process over the next several weeks, and then let's go ahead and make a decision," Obama said at a Democratic National Committee fundraiser.

"And it may be that ... if Congress decides we're not going to do it, even after all the facts are laid out, all the options are clear, then the American people can make a judgment as to whether this Congress has done the right thing for them or not," the president said. "And that's how democracy works. There will be elections coming up, and they'll be able to make a determination and register their concerns."

It was a shift in tone for the issue the "Yes we can" candidate campaigned on and made the centerpiece of his domestic agenda last year. In a speech to a joint session of Congress in September, Obama declared: "I am not the first president to take up this cause, but I am determined to be the last. ... Here and now we will meet history's test."

Source

Dirk · Feb 5, 2010

I hope he isn't the last. There are a thousand better systems than his frankly stupid idea.

deanhills · Feb 5, 2010

Dirk said:
I hope he isn't the last. There are a thousand better systems than his frankly stupid idea.

Definitely agreed. Wonder if he has already conceded defeat behind the scenes?

D'il y a bien longtemps · Feb 5, 2010

myp said:
If you need another opinion from an American citizen feel free to take mine. I believe that this plan only plays into corporate interests and it does nothing to actually reduce the price of health care, it just gives more customers to the insurance companies at taxpayer cost, while at the same time reducing choices for American consumers and adding a bureaucracy to the health care system.

I would much rather see real change, in a move towards the free market. There are several things that can be done including opening up insurance competition across state lines (currently it is illegal to sell insurance across state lines, which has led to higher prices and less choices for American consumers) as well as easing licensing laws and by stopping the tax incentives that favor certain parts of the market- especially employer-purchased care. I would also seek some sort of tort reform.

I agree with all the above.

Abbott Presley · Dec 11, 2020

healthcare issue

Similar threads