Israel the victim?? Really?!?

RoccoR said:

Giap, et al,

You have a very tough road, trying to justify Hezbollah Terrorist Activity as some sort of patriotic freedom fighter effort.

You can knit-pick a discussion board response all you want, deny any historical fact, craft the reality to fit your agenda, and it will not make any difference.

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I am not nit picking anything,I have countered all the points you have made and shown that you have a very feeble grasp of the history of that area.That you would call them terrorists just puts you in a camp with G.Bush and the other dumb ass branches of the US government. As I have stated before they are only considered a "terrorist" group by America/Israel and their puppy dog followers,the rest of the entire world do not consider them "terrorists". That is about 180 countries that do not consider them to be that which you claim,that would say to me that you and others who claim such are in the smallest minority.

The use of violence (cross-border bombings, rocket attacks, and suicide actions) by Hezbollah and Hezbollah threats (the destruction of a state) to intimidate or coerce a peaceful population, especially for political purposes IS, by definition, terrorism.

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Well you have just described what the American military do on a regular basis and they have killed many more people than Hizbollah have,I guess you will now be classifying the American military as terrorists.

Hezbollah directed attacks against the civilian population as such or against individual civilians not taking direct part in hostilities; is a War Crime.

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Again just what the Americans do but the Hizbollah attacks are against Israelis who most are either in the military or military reservists,so not really the wholly civilians population that you claim,of course Israel did waste about 20,000 civilians in the invasion,occupation of Lebanon.

Hezbollah directed attacks against personnel, installations, material, units or vehicles involved in a humanitarian assistance or peacekeeping mission in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations, as long as they are entitled to the protection given to civilians or civilian objects under the international law of armed conflict; is a War Crime.

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What a crock of shit. Hizbollah directed attacks against so called peace keepers who had dropped down on the Israeli side,as I have already explained and you have ignored even though it is well documented by journalists who were there. If you are a peace keeper then you are supposed to be impartial,these so called peace keepers were not. The so called American "peace keepers shelled the country from the sea as they were leaving murdering plenty of Lebanese civilians.

Hezbollah intentionally launching rocket attacks in the knowledge that such attacks will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; is a War Crime.

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I am pretty sure you have already put that forth above,please try not to repeat yourself on the same post.

Now, having said that, do I discount everything the Israelis have done since the 1967 War (Six Day War)? No. There have been many actions taken by the Israelis that I have objections to, just as stringently; that I consider a War Crime.

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Some how I doubt that being as you quote Israeli websites and Israeli propaganda but hey if you wish to think that what you believe then go ahead.

But a wrong committed by the Israelis, is not a justification for the opposing Arabs, to commit atrocities. Humanity and its laws just don't work that way. Barbarianism, and the unreasonable prolonging of the feud, is barbarism. Just a bunch of angry Arabs running around and expending their efforts as if to imitate, in a child-like way, the exploits the First Sultan of the Ayyubid Dynasty - The Great Saladin. And heaven knows that the Great Saladin would role over in spirit now, to look down upon this once magnificent culture and see what it has become.

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Barbarism is just some word made up by the ancient Greeks to describe people that they felt were inferior to themselves,so I do not think it is very relevant in this case unless you are pro Israeli of course.2Humanity and its laws"? What laws are they then? Are they the laws that ignore what Israel does because they have the backing of a veto wielding member of the UN security council? Please do not mention laws as they are ignored everyday by the west and have been for all time,they only take any notice of laws when they are prosecuted some poor sod who would not be their friend any other time they do not a shit about laws,that was shown when the Americans stated that they did not recognise the International court of justice when they were found guilty there of waging an illegal war on Nicaragua.

You can ignore the opposing view and you can attempt to cleverly twist the words around, or even extend the logic to a point of absurdity, but it will not promote your point. The 1985 Creation of Hezbollah was a mistake, created under a mistaken premise, an organization bent on the destruction of a duly constituted nation state recognized by the international community.

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You are now truly talking thru your ass.the creation of Hizbollah was a mistake? Get real,they were created to stop an invader,that invader being Israel. You think they should have all just stood in line to get murdered by the Israeli invaders? What a dumb statement."bent on the destruction of ",you have been reading to many BS Israeli websites.

Hezbollah is not only known by its actions and deeds, but by the relationships it establishes; chief among those is Iran. And there is little doubt in the world community, right now, that Iran is not a threat to world peace; just as Hezbollah - a quasi-proxy/ally, is threat to regional peace.

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"world community".what rubbish,you mean America and a few of its allies, Russia and China seem to have no problems with them. You are just spewing American and Israeli propaganda. Iran not a threat to any country,Iran wants influence in the area that its country is based,the Americans and the Israelis do not want that. The Americans have had a campaign against Iran since their man in Iran the Shah was booted out and the only reason they are interested is because of OIL. Israel does not want its power in the area to be checkmated because then they will not be allowed to go around doing what they want like a bunch of criminals. Seriously you have not got a clue what is going on there and you claim to have lived there,you must have spent all your time on some American base.

[The regional conflict with Israel at the center, has many facets to it. No player in this drama has been completely clean. But as sure as the sky is blue, there has been no question that radical extremist, like Hezbollah, have been so dirty and antagonistic in it self-righteous efforts, that it has lost all credibility in its pursuit to an end-game. It, at one time, may have had a reasonable objective; but its current demands have lost much of its regional support. It is now known as a mere evil non-state actor under the influence of radical extremism and a regional state that is a sponsor of terrorism.

Most Respectfully,
R

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You have real problems,seems to me that your whole argument is based on American and Israeli propaganda,that is the argument you are making here. You are repeating all the same things that come out of Washington DC and Tel Aviv. You should get some new books or websites to read from.

Here you go Rocco,this is what your supposed "peace keepers were doing in Lebanon and why they got attacked.

The Multinational Force Is Asked to Return

In the wake of the massacre, the Lebanese government of Amin Gemayel, brother of Bashir, asks the multinational force to return to help ensure peace. The Marines, the French paratroopers and the Italians land in Beirut again on September 24.
At first the American forces acted as objective peacekeepers. But gradually, the Reagan administration gave in to pressure by the Gemayel government to take its side against Druze and Shiite Muslims in central and southern Lebanon. American troops, welcomed with rice and roses in the Shiite slums of Beirut, slowly became pariahs in Shiites’ eyes. Mistrust turned to outright belligerence once American forces used their firepower to shell Druze and Shiite positions in the mountains surrounding Beirut.
On April 18, 1983, a suicide bomber drove his car into the American Embassy in Beirut, killing 63 people, including 17 Americans—and most of the CIA’s Middle East operatives, who were meeting that day at the embassy. That loss of human intelligence would cost the United States dearly in the months and years ahead.

The Barracks Attack

The United States did not change tactics in Lebanon. Instead, it amplified its ties to the Gemayel government, which had little legitimacy among most Lebanese, and escalated its attacks on Druze and Shiite positions.
On October 23, 1983, the suicide bombers attacked the American and French barracks.
The U.S.S. New Jersey, a World War II battleship with 16-inch guns and shells the size of Volkswagens, taken out of mothballs to support American troops in Vietnam, is called to duty in Beirut in December 1983, to shell Druze, Shiite and Syrian positions.



http://middleeast.about.com/od/usmideastpolicy/a/me081026d.htm


The Americans were certainly not peace keeping at all so they deserved to be attacked. I guess this side of the history did not make it to the American newspapers or your house.

reader said:

Do you know that a bus, full of İranian generals caught in Syria just a few days ago or have you ever heard anything about the terrorist organization PKK camps on the İranian border.


They have been in wars already, just indirectly in it's region.


For the nuclear weapons, as I said before, there is no legal responsibility for İsrael in today's situation, but İran is part of some agreements and they had started the programe with the support of west and us at first, there are things that bring responsibility for İran. İf a country has nuclear weapons in it's inventory, it doesn't create the same legal status for another one. İran is a side of different deals.


On the other hand they often state threatening things like destroying Israel, removing from map etc.

Note that we talk about a theocratic government

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Since Israel stole their nuke tech from the US, France, and UK, they should be party to those nations restrictions.