Obama supports same-sex marriage

myp · May 9, 2012

The President broke news today when he said that he believes same-sex couples should be allowed to marry. The move will probably be polarizing as expected.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/09/us-usa-campaign-obama-gaymarriage-idUSBRE84818Y20120509

I am with the President on this one.

David · May 9, 2012

Until next week anyway. lol

DodgeFB · May 10, 2012

myp said:
The President broke news today when he said that he believes same-sex couples should be allowed to marry. The move will probably be polarizing as expected.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/09/us-usa-campaign-obama-gaymarriage-idUSBRE84818Y20120509

I am with the President on this one.

I do not care what Obama believes. And do not think he really believes what he claimed to believe. The good old VP stepped in it again Sunday (I was was watching) and stirred it all up. He had to get off the fence. His opinion will not change many others opinions across the nation.

As for the subject, I consider "marriage" more a religious thing than legal one anyway. The sell-outs in government will sell anything for a few votes.

David · May 10, 2012

DodgeFB said:
I do not care what Obama believes. And do not think he really believes what he claimed to believe. The good old VP stepped in it again Sunday (I was was watching) and stirred it all up. He had to get off the fence. His opinion will not change many others opinions across the nation.

As for the subject, I consider "marriage" more a religious thing than legal one anyway. The sell-outs in government will sell anything for a few votes.

Marriage is a diplomatic tool that religion and emotion hijacked.

DodgeFB · May 10, 2012

David said:
Marriage is a diplomatic tool that religion and emotion hijacked.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. As I said, what I consider. I did not say what David considers. I know what has held my marriage together for over 35 years has very little to do with diplomacy.

myp · May 10, 2012

DodgeFB said:
I do not care what Obama believes. And do not think he really believes what he claimed to believe. The good old VP stepped in it again Sunday (I was was watching) and stirred it all up. He had to get off the fence. His opinion will not change many others opinions across the nation.

As for the subject, I consider "marriage" more a religious thing than legal one anyway. The sell-outs in government will sell anything for a few votes.

Considering Obama's policy positions in rhetoric and overall rhetoric (and his base), I think he strongly believes in what he said, he just couldn't say it earlier for political reasons. As for selling out for votes, it's a matter of incentives and every politician does it (but again I don't think that is what Obama is doing here)- to an extent it's needed to win elections in modern politics.

As for marriage, I consider it not a religious thing (although for some it could be), not a government thing, but a private thing in which people can make of it what they please. Under the current legal structure though, government is involved in marriage and because of that it's opinion is relevant.

DodgeFB · May 10, 2012

myp said:
Considering Obama's policy positions in rhetoric and overall rhetoric (and his base), I think he strongly believes in what he said, he just couldn't say it earlier for political reasons. As for selling out for votes, it's a matter of incentives and every politician does it (but again I don't think that is what Obama is doing here)- to an extent it's needed to win elections in modern politics.

As for marriage, I consider it not a religious thing (although for some it could be), not a government thing, but a private thing in which people can make of it what they please. Under the current legal structure though, government is involved in marriage and because of that it's opinion is relevant.

I don't think he believes "strongly" in anything except "pandering" for votes. But he is just one of many doing the same thing.

They can change the law, but they can not force the "respect" they seem to be pushing for. No one likes to have something they truly feel is wrong shoved up their butt. I think forcing it may hurt their cause in some circles. But then many people have no respect for anything religious and just blow that view off as stupid.

David · May 10, 2012

DodgeFB said:
We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. As I said, what I consider. I did not say what David considers. I know what has held my marriage together for over 35 years has very little to do with diplomacy.

You can't wish away history, sorry.

DodgeFB · May 10, 2012

David said:
You can't wish away history, sorry.

Don't feel sorry for me.

I said "I consider "marriage" more a religious thing than legal one". That is absolutely true. And I said " I know what has held my marriage together for over 35 years has very little to do with diplomacy."

I feel sorry for you. Because you have no idea how true those statements are. I really do know more about my own considerations and marriage than you do. That is fact, ever how smart you may be.

myp · May 10, 2012

DodgeFB said:
I don't think he believes "strongly" in anything except "pandering" for votes. But he is just one of many doing the same thing.

Just because he believes in something you disagree with does not mean he is pandering for votes. Do you not think he has good intentions? Do you not think he strongly wanted healthcare reform to go through? Do you really think his whole platform is a sham?

I do not agree with the guy on a lot of issues. I am a registered Republican. I believe in markets generally and I do not support the healthcare bill he passed. But I am not going to use unfair arguments to put him down and in the process pretend that he is the only one that cares about votes or that he only cares about votes. I also will not deny that he is a great politician and if he was on the right, everyone in the GOP would be clamoring around him much as they did with Reagan.

DodgeFB said:
They can change the law, but they can not force the "respect" they seem to be pushing for. No one likes to have something they truly feel is wrong shoved up their butt. I think forcing it may hurt their cause in some circles. But then many people have no respect for anything religious and just blow that view off as stupid.

What are you forcing if you pass legalized gay marriage? You are allowing people to do what they want. In fact, gays see it as forcing that the law WON'T let them get married right now. And when you think about which one requires coercion (force), the argument that the current law (having gay marriage illegal) forces something and the lack of that law would remove the force becomes quite apparent.

DodgeFB · May 10, 2012

myp said:
Just because he believes in something you disagree with does not mean he is pandering for votes. Do you not think he has good intentions? Do you not think he strongly wanted healthcare reform to go through? Do you really think his whole platform is a sham?

I do not agree with the guy on a lot of issues. I am a registered Republican. I believe in markets generally and I do not support the healthcare bill he passed. But I am not going to use unfair arguments to put him down and in the process pretend that he is the only one that cares about votes or that he only cares about votes. I also will not deny that he is a great politician and if he was on the right, everyone in the GOP would be clamoring around him much as they did with Reagan.

What are you forcing if you pass legalized gay marriage? You are allowing people to do what they want. In fact, gays see it as forcing that the law WON'T let them get married right now. And when you think about which one requires coercion (force), the argument that the current law (having gay marriage illegal) forces something and the lack of that law would remove the force becomes quite apparent.

In short I think 90% of what he says and does is to feed his ego. I would not trust him to be mayor of a small town.

Sure he wanted to pass healthcare reform. But just so he could say "look what I did".

I remember Reagan well. I was a democrat that voted for Reagan twice. And there would be little clamoring for Obama if he was on the right. If you notice I don't clamor for the guys on the right either.

I see his so called support as simple pandering. As I said they all do it. None better at it than him. He will stoop to any level to push his agenda.

I see on TV today that even black preachers are not happy about this little stunt.

As far as forcing goes it is an attempt to change the beliefs and traditions of millions of people. I personally don't care either way. Because his opinion means nothing to me. Just as mine means nothing to him.

And yes since you ask, I do think most of what he says and does is a sham.

myp · May 10, 2012

I think you have either been watching a bit too much Fox or are just envious of the President. He is a great politician, that scares some people. He is a hero when he's on your side, he's evil when he's on the other (again I point to Reagan with how Dems see him vs. how the GOP sees him), and to people like me who are in the middle it's just a crazy sideshow.

And of course his remarks upset black preachers since they are part of the church. My point is the church is wrong. And no, legalizing gay marriage is not forcing beliefs on you. Keeping gay marriage illegal is forcing beliefs on others. If two gay people love each other and want to get married and are staying out of your life, what's it to you or the church or the anti-gay GOP members or the anti-gay Democrat members?

DodgeFB · May 10, 2012

myp said:
I think you have either been watching a bit too much Fox or are just envious of the President.

You have no idea how wrong you are. My TVs are on rabbit ears. No Fox news here. And I am sorry that you think I am so low as to be envious of an ego wearing a suit. I am less envious of him than anyone in office.

But it does seem you joined the wrong party. It sounds like he is your kind of guy.

I don't really have a horse in this race. I am to the point of anybody but BO. We might as well give someone else a chance since it is plain he is not up to the job.

And as I have said before, I don't care who gets married to who. I just don't like the way this guy pandered to get a few votes and some money.

Just as presidents before him he thinks he was made King, not president. And that the country is his playground. I hate when anyone uses Air Force One as a campaign bus.l

myp · May 10, 2012

I can't support someone on one issue without you suggesting I should support him in an election or be on his "side" as if this is some sort of baseball game? I really don't understand it- that's just illogical. Obama supported going to Afghanistan after 9/11. You did too. Maybe you should vote for him too. What kind of logic is that?

Anyway, why do you hate him? Why do the GOP hate him? (except for the fact you know he has the potential to beat a GOP candidate- but that's a political game, I thought you just care about what's good for the people/country)

You think he does things just for votes. But you forget that everyone does things for votes. And without that no one can win in today's politics. It makes no sense to blame only one person for this and not anyone else or to blame one more than others unless it is justified and I don't think it is nor have you shown why it should be.

Also, did you think whatever President it was who first supported equal opportunities for blacks and whites was also pandering for votes? Because that is analogous to this. The man stated his opinion, does he not have the right to do so?

Anything affects votes- action and inaction so no matter what he does he will gain and lose votes- he can't really help that. Also, this doesn't really help him get votes- it will likely hurt him with independents, certainly doesn't warm him to the social conservatives, and all it does is rally a base that would already have voted for him. InTrade, the prediction market saw virtually no change in his election chances upon breaking of the news. Now sure there are other news stories, etc. that affect the ups and downs and what we see is net data, but if it were anything as strong as you suggest, surely we would have seen some sort of uptick?

David · May 10, 2012

I think it boils down to the Dem platform. Starting with the '06 Midterms the Dems adopted the (late 20th Century) GOP platform and in '08 ran what amounts to a black Reagan. For decades the Repubs have been waiting to get rid of what they viewed as a weak and corrupted Party filled with Newts and Bushes and return to the ideals of the Reagan Revolution. When the Dems swept into power and usurped their dream of restoration most Repubs ether defected and voted for Obama in '08 or stayed home. After 6 years of seeing their dream being realized by the 'Liberal' party, the Repubs have reacted by shifting to the far right hoping to 1-up Reagan.

myp · May 10, 2012

The Dem platform is not the neoconservative platform. As for ridding of bad members: Newt maybe, Bush was a promising figure. You are trying to simplify it too much and in the process getting a lot of it wrong.

David · May 10, 2012

myp said:
The Dem platform is not the neoconservative platform. As for ridding of bad members: Newt maybe, Bush was a promising figure. You are trying to simplify it too much and in the process getting a lot of it wrong.

Not the 2nd Bush. In any case, I'm not really oversimplifying it. The Dems are almost quoting verbatim 70s/80s/early 90s Repub arguments in Congress and have taken to citing Reagan almost as often as the Repubs do. It's also true that many Repubs did stay home or vote for Obama in '08. Perhaps I was a bit to general in my claims of Republican Party members shifting to the right to compassionate as people like you prove but it's not an inaccurate assessment of the Party as a whole.

myp · May 10, 2012

David said:
Not the 2nd Bush.

Look at the 2000 primary and then tell me that again.

David said:
The Dems are almost quoting verbatim 70s/80s/early 90s Repub arguments in Congress

Really? They are calling for supply-side economics, S&L deregulation, lower taxes, lower government spending? What C-SPAN have you been watching?

David said:
and have taken to citing Reagan almost as often as the Repubs do.

That is hyperbole and you know it. No where close. And if they do it is in a negative light.

DodgeFB · May 11, 2012

myp said:
I can't support someone on one issue without you suggesting I should support him in an election or be on his "side" as if this is some sort of baseball game? I really don't understand it- that's just illogical. Obama supported going to Afghanistan after 9/11. You did too. Maybe you should vote for him too. What kind of logic is that?

Anyway, why do you hate him? Why do the GOP hate him? (except for the fact you know he has the potential to beat a GOP candidate- but that's a political game, I thought you just care about what's good for the people/country)

You think he does things just for votes. But you forget that everyone does things for votes. And without that no one can win in today's politics. It makes no sense to blame only one person for this and not anyone else

Why do I hate him? Wrong question. Why should I like him? He is as phony as a 4 dollar bill in my opinion. He has worked very hard to get things done that I don't like since day one in office.

I actually did like him before I did not like him. That speech he made at the Democratic convention a few years ago got my attention. I even spoke to a friend in Illinois about him. Then as time went on the more I saw that I did not like his ideas or his attitude.

That everyone does it does not fly for me. If the country was going fire everyone in congress, everyone in the senate, and the president and VP I would smile. If given the power to save 5 of their jobs I would not save even one.

I have little or no respect for any of them. And see no reason why I should. Respect for their office? They are the ones that disrespect their office by just showing up.

I know the young people from 18 to about 40 don't understand my opinions. And that is fine. Many people over 50 do.

Last but not least, you need to get off the thing about me and Republicans. I don't like them either. Ever who wins the election this time it will be a sad day in America in my opinion. I do care about America. But Americans will get the leadership they deserve. I just don't see anything good coming for a few years.

You really don't understand my opinions as well as you seem to think you do.

myp · May 11, 2012

It is a matter of the system. No matter who is in Congress or the White House- even if it was you- you would have to care about votes if you wanted to stay there for more than a term or in many cases even if you wanted to pass anything substantial. Politicians always compromise and have to balance between winning votes and getting their agenda through. Obama is no different.

As for why you find him phony... why? Especially in the context of this gay marriage thing- would it really surprise you if he really supported gay marriage?

Obama supports same-sex marriage

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