Ron Paul says we past the point of no return on the Fiscal Cliff.

chris7375 · Jan 7, 2013

redwood said:
Paul is adept at oversimplification....but if you follow what he's been for..it's warmed over Feudalism. Virtually EVERY reform of the past 100 yr....gone. The rich and powerful pretty much do as they please and the rest of us have to just shut up and swallow it.

The so called "Cliff" is a case of the REALITIES of a Demand-Side economy conflicting with the myths of Supply side...which have a big grip on our politics. Too much austerity dries up the economy. You can't get GROWTH when nobody spends and the private sector won't act unless they see DEMAND. However...any "austerity/spending cut" scheme...IS a case of a lot of layoffs.

Having both public sector layoffs (aka Spending cuts) along with contracts cancelled or delayed...AND dropping 1 million off Unemployment AND having taxes rise a few % (income tax) + some more (FICA)...takes a LOT out of the loop and can especially hit some areas hard. That leads to a chain reaction.

My Toyota was made in a plant in the middle of Kentucky, is by far the areas biggest employer. If demand dives and they lay off half the workers...what happens to other businesses in the area?

Meanwhile..after all the fuss over the debt...now it's gone to "Oh,nevermind" and so taxes rise a little on folks making just under a half million a year...but there's still a ton of loopholes, so you can bet Mitt won't be paying more. Judging from a lot of the nonsense we recently heard from certain politicians...they figure hardly anyone ever had a class in accounting or Econ. The folks actually making $450,000 a year in salary...will easily find ways to make a chunk of that non taxable. IRA's, Municipal bonds,various investments Likely a person could be making as much as $800,000 per and juggle it to get under the line, so...you get a REAL tax hike on less than 0.5% of Americans and they are MOST able to duck and dodge that. After all that noise and drama...the real effect on the debt is...at best..small.

Now I have an honest question for you. Though all of you can answer it. Would it not just be simpler to have a flat tax, or a flat tiered tax. Do away with the filing of income taxes at years end?

myp · Jan 7, 2013

chris7375 said:
Now I have an honest question for you. Though all of you can answer it. Would it not just be simpler to have a flat tax, or a flat tiered tax. Do away with the filing of income taxes at years end?

Simpler, perhaps. Better, no. I am not for regressive taxation

chris7375 · Jan 7, 2013

myp said:
Simpler, perhaps. Better, no. I am not for regressive taxation

Though you have to agree (well you don't have to agree lol) it would close a lot of the loop holes that plague our current system.

myp · Jan 7, 2013

chris7375 said:
Though you have to agree (well you don't have to agree lol) it would close a lot of the loop holes that plague our current system.

How do you suppose it would do that? The loopholes have nothing to do with the tax brackets. You can make it all one big bracket (flat tax) and still have the same loopholes. The loopholes are issues with other things like deductions, how the government defines one's earnings, etc.

chris7375 · Jan 7, 2013

myp said:
How do you suppose it would do that? The loopholes have nothing to do with the tax brackets. You can make it all one big bracket (flat tax) and still have the same loopholes. The loopholes are issues with other things like deductions, how the government defines one's earnings, etc.

No if you do away with the needless filing of tax returns yearly you close many loopholes. How many billions are lost to illegal immigrants filing taxes when they shouldn't. The figure is 4.2 billion. How many billions are lost due to identity theft 5.4 I think I have it in another thread. If you do away with the current system of filing and monetary returns you close some of those loopholes that cost us the tax payer billions of needless losses.

myp · Jan 7, 2013

chris7375 said:
No if you do away with the needless filing of tax returns yearly you close many loopholes. How many billions are lost to illegal immigrants filing taxes when they shouldn't. The figure is 4.2 billion. How many billions are lost due to identity theft 5.4 I think I have it in another thread. If you do away with the current system of filing and monetary returns you close some of those loopholes that cost us the tax payer billions of needless losses.

A lot of illegal immigrants actually pay taxes after the change that no longer requires social security numbers to file- I believe put in place during the Clinton years. They do this to avoid the IRS and the legal issues that might bring.

That aside, I am not sure how switching to a flat tax gets rid of tax evasion or identity theft. Care to elaborate?

chris7375 · Jan 7, 2013

myp said:
A lot of illegal immigrants actually pay taxes after the change that no longer requires social security numbers to file- I believe put in place during the Clinton years. They do this to avoid the IRS and the legal issues that might bring.

That aside, I am not sure how switching to a flat tax gets rid of tax evasion or identity theft. Care to elaborate?

If you had a flat tax with no deduction or w-4 form everyone would have the same tax taken out. If you did away with the filing system along with it no one would be able to get money back at the end of the year. It is far from a perfect system and I am sure tax evasion would still happen though if you tax the same rate it would be harder I believe.
How many billions are lost with the current file and return system. At the end of the year the other way no one would owe taxes or be owed any money.

Squishy Skeever · Jan 7, 2013

Ron Paul is right. THis country is Crap. Hear that some butt face democrat wants to eliinate terms on the presidency?!? Da faq?

tecoyah · Jan 7, 2013

If...the flat tax were a forward facing system (ie..charged during true income)..it might avoid the abuses inherent.

I have yet to see such a thing.

If we somehow managed to tax 10 cents on every single dollar our economy helps produces for the lucky bastard that keeps the other 90%....sure, a flat tax makes sense.

David · Jan 7, 2013

Squishy Skeever said:
Ron Paul is right. THis country is Crap. Hear that some butt face democrat wants to eliinate terms on the presidency?!? Da faq?

Everyone tries to get rid of term limits, it's actually routine.

Squishy Skeever · Jan 7, 2013

Hmm... Did not know that. Either way, I do not want to see this country if anus gets re-RE-elected!

Ron Paul says we past the point of no return on the Fiscal Cliff.

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