The Pope - What a Fool!

Delta · Mar 25, 2009

Recently the pope has declared that condom usage makes AIDS worse.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5923927.ece

Apparently it doesn't take much education or intelligence to become a pope. One of the most powerful individuals in the world spreading lies about the second best method of HIV prevention - that's a dangerous thing.

Sure, he's right that the best method is abstinence, but we're human, and we like having sex. That's just nature and it won't change. What a fool.

DodgeFB · Mar 25, 2009

I had no idea the pope even studied condoms.

Delta · Mar 25, 2009

DodgeFB said:
I had no idea the pope even studied condoms.

Apparently he does! His research has lead to the conclusion that condoms spread AIDS.

Really though, he shouldn't need to study condoms to know that they protect against STI's - any 6th grader could tell you that. AND if he doesn't have the education in a topic - he shouldn't be commenting on it.

Glee · Mar 25, 2009

Delta said:
Recently the pope has declared that condom usage makes AIDS worse.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article5923927.ece

Apparently it doesn't take much education or intelligence to become a pope. One of the most powerful individuals in the world spreading lies about the second best method of HIV prevention - that's a dangerous thing.

Sure, he's right that the best method is abstinence, but we're human, and we like having sex. That's just nature and it won't change. What a fool.

Think about it. The Pope is a life-long virgin with Old-World views. He doesn't understand sex because all he thinks about is Catholic-duties. But as leader of the church he's expected to speak on these issues. Poor stupid man.

DodgeFB · Mar 25, 2009

I always take that "life-long virgin" part with a grain of salt.

myp · Mar 25, 2009

I understand why he sticks to these traditional viewpoints, but it is really time to think about this logically- saying things like this about contraceptives will only lead to worse things happening than if they were allowed. Sticking to these old notions hurt progress, but I really believe that the day will come when this idea will be dropped even by the most religious people- just as they let go of the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe.

Delta · Mar 25, 2009

myp said:
...but I really believe that the day will come when this idea will be dropped even by the most religious people- just as they let go of the idea that the Earth was the center of the universe.

One would hope so but I don't have much hope that that will be any time soon. I mean, we're talking people that still believe we walked on the earth with dinosaurs and that the earth is only 6000 years old. That bananas are proof of god, or the fact that when you open peanut butter - there is no spontaneous life and so this disproves evolution.

myp · Mar 25, 2009

Delta said:
One would hope so but I don't have much hope that that will be any time soon. I mean, we're talking people that still believe we walked on the earth with dinosaurs and that the earth is only 6000 years old. That bananas are proof of god, or the fact that when you open peanut butter - there is no spontaneous life and so this disproves evolution.

Some of the orthodox Christian views (not saying that other religions don't have crazy ideas too- because they all have some) really are farfetched, but just like with many of Galileo's views, I think eventually (it may take some time, but eventually) even the most religious of people will ditch some of these views and accept the facts. History has shown us that as science advances religions have reinterpreted their texts to better match up with science and I don't expect anything different with the current hot topic issues such as this, evolution, and even gay rights.

Delta · Mar 25, 2009

myp said:
History has shown us that as science advances religions have reinterpreted their texts to better match up with science and I don't expect anything different with the current hot topic issues such as this, evolution, and even gay rights.

This is definitely a good point. I was talking with a friend the other day who told me that the Catholic church isn't actually against the theory of evolution. Of course they have their religious spin on it, but at least it's a step forward:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...volution-is-compatible-with-Christianity.html

It's just odd how they can change their point of view on something so huge as evolution and yet, contraceptives that have proven effectiveness are basically the spawn of Satan.

myp · Mar 25, 2009

Delta said:
...It's just odd how they can change their point of view on something so huge as evolution and yet, contraceptives that have proven effectiveness are basically the spawn of Satan.

That is very interesting, but even the article mentions that the Catholic church has been hostile to the theory in the past. With that in mind, it can be argued that Christianity is currently remolding itself in order to encompass Darwin's ideas, not necessarily that it was always compatible with it.

And I am totally with you on the contraceptives thing- it is just absurd, but I know of similar opinions towards them from certain groups within other religions as well. I guess it just comes from the idea that sex is something that comes from love and sleeping around is not good. The only problem with that though, is that at the end of the day a lot of people still do what they want and people want sex, so some people do and always will have recreational sex regardless of what religions tell us.

curious · Mar 25, 2009

Delta said:
One would hope so but I don't have much hope that that will be any time soon. I mean, we're talking people that still believe we walked on the earth with dinosaurs and that the earth is only 6000 years old. That bananas are proof of god, or the fact that when you open peanut butter - there is no spontaneous life and so this disproves evolution.

That's the very conservative right talking. That isn't the modern Catholic church's position at all. They believe in evolution and that the earth is millions of years old.

They just have this blind spot about contraception that they will twist and turn to get around. I'm betting that the old guy misunderstood a report and now they are stuck with him looking like an idiot.

The Parakeet · Mar 25, 2009

The really bad thing about this is that his words often carry a lot of weight in developing countries. The biggest thing causing the spread of AIDS is ignorance of what really causes it. This isn't the first time that the church has been against condoms either.

Your mention of Galileo made me think a bit though. Galileo was heavily opposed by the Church because they were backed into a corner. His views required them to say that the Bible wasn't literal, which they couldn't do. They had been arguing against the Protestants and Martin Luther at the time and they couldn't give an inch.

I see this as a similar situation. They have to stick to their cultural values, or give up a whole lot of spiritual ground they've fought hard to hold. If they start saying that condoms are fine, then it would be a big loss for them.

GekiDan · Mar 25, 2009

The Parakeet said:
The really bad thing about this is that his words often carry a lot of weight in developing countries. The biggest thing causing the spread of AIDS is ignorance of what really causes it. This isn't the first time that the church has been against condoms either.

Church is always pro-life. Meaning, they always condemned everything related to family planning methods like condoms and birth control pills. And because life is getting difficult nowadays, people need to plan ahead for their family and use these methods to prevent unnecessary births that can sometimes leads to abortion which is bad.

I agree to you that people who got AIDS and other STDs are ignorant. They don't have protection and often have sex with different people mostly pick-ups. That's what I read on the newspaper about the causes of AIDS.

The Parakeet · Mar 25, 2009

The problem is that its true ignorance though. They just don't believe or understand AIDS. My old Biology teacher took a lot of trips there and just talked about the problem as he saw it on his trips.

There are too many witch doctors, religious figures, and idiot politicians who don't understand it. There is still a popular myth that AIDS can be cured if you have sex with a virgin...that's obviously not happening. The awareness just isn't there and a lot of people don't realize the gravity of their mistakes.

The Vatican talking against contraception is another straw on the camel's back preventing the spread of safe sex.

GekiDan · Mar 26, 2009

The Parakeet said:
There is still a popular myth that AIDS can be cured if you have sex with a virgin...

I didn't see that coming. To tell you the truth, I haven't read about that myth on curing AIDS. So if your AIDS doesn't get cured on your first try, you will need to try again on other people until you are cured.

The Parakeet said:
The Vatican talking against contraception is another straw on the camel's back preventing the spread of safe sex.

It's the whole Church including pro-life activists. They are always saying that when one does sex, there's always new life. And contraceptions will prevent the birth of a new life.

Since Earth is getting little over populated, people need to do such family planning methods to prevent this.

The Parakeet · Mar 26, 2009

Yeah. The state of healthcare knowledge in some parts of Africa is just depressing. This bad information just helps it spread more and more. Bush also hurt the push for real sexual education too though. A lot of them just don't see the danger in casual unprotected sex.

GekiDan · Mar 26, 2009

The Parakeet said:
Yeah. The state of healthcare knowledge in some parts of Africa is just depressing. This bad information just helps it spread more and more. Bush also hurt the push for real sexual education too though. A lot of them just don't see the danger in casual unprotected sex.

The government here want to include sex education in high school subjects to help children understand more the topic. But as usual, the church always won't allow it.

curious · Mar 27, 2009

That's the local church then, within your country. Because in the US and Australia, the Catholic schools have sex education as part of their curriculum. I knew a woman who taught physical education and health in a Catholic school in Australia, and she was responsible for sex education, too. She said the rationalization was that in order to not practice any of the forbidden forms of birth control, the students must understand them thoroughly.

In the US, this is one area where the church is pretty much totally ignored. They sort of wink-wink condone it, actually.

deanhills · Mar 27, 2009

AIDS is most prevalent in Southern Africa as far as Africa goes. Catholics are a minority religion there, not more than 7% of the total population. Black males do not like the use of condoms, and I don't believe the pope will either impress them or not impress them, the pope does not have that much influence in that area of the world. In a recent epidemiological study it was found that the attitude of women in Southern Africa has changed regarding use of condoms for prevention of AIDS, but not of black men. Another big challenge is the incidence of rape which is very high in Southern Africa and its role in contributing to the escalation of AIDS. Possibly the culture in Southern Africa about sex and condoms is the very reason why incidences of AIDS are the highest in the world, and why it is so difficult to change attitudes. Also sad that some of the poorest people are living in those areas, especially in Zimbabwe and are unable to get the treatment they need for this disease.

The Parakeet · Mar 27, 2009

The Pope speaking against them does have a measurable effect though. I thought a survey had been done after an archbishop had made similar statements against condoms. The main point is that it just doesn't help the situation. It also puts some more religious areas (like South and Central America...if I recall correctly) into jeopardy.

The Pope - What a Fool!

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