The state and self-harm

Mar 2009
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You quoted the OP and said 'I agree.' The OP said they understand about stepping in if an act HURTS other people. Suicide HURTS other people- you already AGREED with the OP's statements about that- so how can you now say that you don't want some dogooder stepping in? Either you agree that harming others is a reason for people to step in or you don't.

The act of harming oneself harms those around them.
I know all too well the harm it can do. My daughter's boyfriend blew his brains out all over my daughter a few years ago. She is still having problems with that. I have no problem with him killing himself. Just the way he went about it.

I had a good friend years ago who blew his head off with a shotgun. He had cancer and it was coming outside from the inside. Do I blame him. No. So please don't try to tell me how I feel about suicide. I have given it more thought than anyone will ever know.
 
Jan 2010
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I didn't say how you feel, I think you're being a bit defensive. I said that the act of suicide hurts other people.. that is just a fact. I didn't intend to offend you, I'm just saying MY opinion. I believe people asked for us to share our thoughts and just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm telling you how you feel/how to feel.
 
Mar 2009
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I didn't say how you feel, I think you're being a bit defensive. I said that the act of suicide hurts other people.. that is just a fact. I didn't intend to offend you, I'm just saying MY opinion. I believe people asked for us to share our thoughts and just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm telling you how you feel/how to feel.
I never ask or expect anyone to agree with me. All I would want is if I choose to end my life today is for others to stay out of my way and not try to "save" me. As for being "defensive", that probably comes from being "guilt tripped" into taking cancer treatments years ago. On top of being so sick everyone kept telling me "you don't have a right to just die". I still wish I had never took any. I did stop before the doctors wanted me to stop. And was accused of "committing suicide" just by the act of refusing more treatment.:mad:
 
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Jan 2010
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I know a lot of people who refuse treatment because they just know they don't have the desire to fight it and I think that is a right, even though yes it does hurt the other people- they are already hurting just hearing the word cancer and if they want whats best for you (and not themselves) they should support the decisions you (as in those with cancer) make, but even when people fight cancer they still die- and it's OUT of your CONTROL.
 
Mar 2009
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I know a lot of people who refuse treatment because they just know they don't have the desire to fight it and I think that is a right, even though yes it does hurt the other people- they are already hurting just hearing the word cancer and if they want whats best for you (and not themselves) they should support the decisions you (as in those with cancer) make, but even when people fight cancer they still die- and it's OUT of your CONTROL.
Agreed, and understandably so too. Treatments are really expensive and they can bankrupt families. Think some decide not to do the treatments for financial reasons, and for the sake of their families.
 
Mar 2009
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Agreed, and understandably so too. Treatments are really expensive and they can bankrupt families. Think some decide not to do the treatments for financial reasons, and for the sake of their families.
I had a million dollar policy from my job. But it is tough to go have chemicals too nasty to use in warfare shot directly into your veins. I was sicker and weaker after every "treatment". You even have to sign paperwork that you know this could kill you. You go from just feeling bad to being lead to the bathroom for a week to ten days. The last time I went I sat on my bed with my pistol and wondered if I could take another one. That was the last one for me. I lost 45% of the movement in one arm and 48% in the other. It took 6 months of physical therapy to straighten out my arms. So I never got well and I have not died yet. I am in a place most people would not enjoy. But I know a lot about me. That crap burned me like bacon in in a hot pan. They never did say what that stuff soes to the brain.
 
Apr 2009
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Disunited Queendom
I have no problem with him killing himself. Just the way he went about it.

You might argue that if it were legal and more acceptable, socially, there might be more information about the most unobtrusive (to others), effective, thorough and least painful ways of doing it available.
 
Mar 2009
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You might argue that if it were legal and more acceptable, socially, there might be more information about the most unobtrusive (to others), effective, thorough and least painful ways of doing it available.
I think that would have been much better. I was really mad about how he did it. But I am still grateful he did not take my daughter with him. So many people think they have to wipe out others on their way out.

Something strange, he worked on the bullet 3 nights before he did it. Told everyone this was the bullet that would kill him. He cut groves in it and shined it up all pretty. I went to the hospital that night to get my daughter and they said the bullet was in 21 fragments. They had him on a ventilator for a while after surgery so his mom could come.
 
Mar 2009
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I had a million dollar policy from my job. But it is tough to go have chemicals too nasty to use in warfare shot directly into your veins. I was sicker and weaker after every "treatment". You even have to sign paperwork that you know this could kill you. You go from just feeling bad to being lead to the bathroom for a week to ten days. The last time I went I sat on my bed with my pistol and wondered if I could take another one. That was the last one for me. I lost 45% of the movement in one arm and 48% in the other. It took 6 months of physical therapy to straighten out my arms. So I never got well and I have not died yet. I am in a place most people would not enjoy. But I know a lot about me. That crap burned me like bacon in in a hot pan. They never did say what that stuff soes to the brain.
Wow! That is tremendously brave. Not sure I would have been able to survive through all of that. I think when it gets to that stage, one should really have a choice to make life decisions, this has to be suffering at its most acute?
 
Mar 2009
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Wow! That is tremendously brave. Not sure I would have been able to survive through all of that. I think when it gets to that stage, one should really have a choice to make life decisions, this has to be suffering at its most acute?
Not brave at all my friend. Just scrambling around trying to do the best I could at the time. It was an almost surreal feeling at the time.
 
May 2010
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Mahatma Gandhi once said nobody harms us as we think but ourselves. How right he was! We and our actions are responsible for self-harm.
 
Aug 2011
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harming our own body is a crime in my opinion. and i read in muslims it is Haram. what a beuatiful law provided by their God.. i think this should apply everywhere in every religion
 
Mar 2009
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harming our own body is a crime in my opinion. and i read in muslims it is Haram. what a beuatiful law provided by their God.. i think this should apply everywhere in every religion
I don't want to even think about changing anyone's religion. I have enough problems trying to deal with my own.:unsure:
 
Jul 2011
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I must disagree with most and say that it should be against the law to self harm.

To me self harm simply means that they do not have the mental support that someone needs. That should also be a crime in itself as we should all be able to gain the support we need.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
I must disagree with most and say that it should be against the law to self harm.

To me self harm simply means that they do not have the mental support that someone needs. That should also be a crime in itself as we should all be able to gain the support we need.
What are you defining as self-harm here? The OP writes about things including drug-use, in which case I think the argument can be made that alcohol use is also self-harm. I generally agree with the OP though- if we have a right to one thing, it is ourselves and we should be able to do as we please with it.
 
Jul 2011
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What are you defining as self-harm here? The OP writes about things including drug-use, in which case I think the argument can be made that alcohol use is also self-harm. I generally agree with the OP though- if we have a right to one thing, it is ourselves and we should be able to do as we please with it.

To me drinking to an excessive amount would indicate something else (either addiction or depression...) both are Psychological conditions that with the right help people can overcome.

I think this can apply to most reasons for self harm (be them self harming in a literal cutting yourself sense or drinking, drugs and even suicide). All of these can often have something behind them making them want to do this.

If someone came up to me tomorrow and told me "I'm ready to die" then I wouldn't think they were in the right sense of mind and would call paramedics to come and collect them to get him the support he needed.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
To me drinking to an excessive amount would indicate something else (either addiction or depression...) both are Psychological conditions that with the right help people can overcome.

I think this can apply to most reasons for self harm (be them self harming in a literal cutting yourself sense or drinking, drugs and even suicide). All of these can often have something behind them making them want to do this.

If someone came up to me tomorrow and told me "I'm ready to die" then I wouldn't think they were in the right sense of mind and would call paramedics to come and collect them to get him the support he needed.

A lot of people drink and at times get drunk but far from want to kill themselves. They drink knowing it isn't good for their body, but for other reasons- often social or just for fun. It isn't really a sickness in that case. We all know how state control of such activities goes by what happened during the prohibition and with the current war on drugs- the prohibitions don't work because people do what they want anyway and you usually couple the prohibition with increased organized crime. So when it comes to drinking or doing drugs, I personally am for 100% legalization. I don't think the state should have a say even if it thinks it knows better because when it gets involved it usually makes things worse.

The case of suicide is a trickier one since the intent is to actually cause harm to themselves.
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
To me drinking to an excessive amount would indicate something else (either addiction or depression...) both are Psychological conditions that with the right help people can overcome.

I think this can apply to most reasons for self harm (be them self harming in a literal cutting yourself sense or drinking, drugs and even suicide). All of these can often have something behind them making them want to do this.

If someone came up to me tomorrow and told me "I'm ready to die" then I wouldn't think they were in the right sense of mind and would call paramedics to come and collect them to get him the support he needed.
I have been ready to die for years. The only reason I am not dead is I don't want my wife in a nursing home and my dogs in the pound. But I claim my life as my own. And feel free to do with it as I decide.


Suicide is not chosen; it happens
when pain exceeds
resources for coping with pain.
 
Sep 2011
14
0
New England
I must disagree with most and say that it should be against the law to self harm.

To me self harm simply means that they do not have the mental support that someone needs. That should also be a crime in itself as we should all be able to gain the support we need.

This might be the single most FRIGHTENING thing I have seen today. My good friend risks serious "self harm" regularly...he is an avid motocross racer and has a considerable collection of scars to show for it. (In MOTO-X, it's not IF you wipe out, it is WHEN you wipe out!) His brother is a rock climber. My uncle loves riding his motorcycle. My wife is a martial artist.

Who decides what is "self harm"?
 
Mar 2009
2,751
6
Undisclosed
This might be the single most FRIGHTENING thing I have seen today. My good friend risks serious "self harm" regularly...he is an avid motocross racer and has a considerable collection of scars to show for it. (In MOTO-X, it's not IF you wipe out, it is WHEN you wipe out!) His brother is a rock climber. My uncle loves riding his motorcycle. My wife is a martial artist.

Who decides what is "self harm"?
Losing control of my own life would be a very scary thing to me.
 
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