The Universal Whaling Issue

rice_farmer · Apr 1, 2012

"The hunting of whales by man is probably thousands of years old, but it became an important industry in the nineteenth century, when increased industrialisation and urbanisation created a demand for the lighting oil which could be produced from whale blubber. The meat of the animal and other parts of whales were used as well, but it was the demand for oil that drove the industry. With the development of petroleum oil in the late nineteenth century the industry declined, but whaling for meat and other products continued and modern technology was introduced to make hunting more efficient. The increasing scarcity of many whale species, together with growing recognition of the intelligence and social nature of whales, led to calls for regulation of whale catches and the creation of the International Whaling Commission. The IWC introduced a ban on whale hunting in 1982, effective from 1986, since when whale stocks appear to have recovered, although the extent of this is controversial. Some whaling continues for research purposes, mostly by Japan, which has been widely criticised for taking hundreds more whales than can be justified by the needs of scientific inquiry. Recently Japan and Norway have led demands from some countries for the lifting of the ban and the resumption of some whaling under regulation. This is widely opposed by most of the other members of the IWC and by a range of (mostly western) pressure groups" Author:Alastair Enders.

I think whaling is indeed necessary, anyway why is the uproar happening now? In every way whaling is also called "hunting", which has literally been around since the stone ages, is humanity that dysfunctional that we can't recognize the simplest of things. Someone who is against whaling must also be against fishing:giggle:. By saying whaling is wrong; you’re also saying that all hunting is wrong. The way I see it is that it's either all animals or none at all, the so called people out to stop whaling are basically just attention grabbing hypocrites not realizing how foolish their making themselves and their cause to be. Am I the only one who thinks this controversy over the collection of whales is just ridiculous?

DodgeFB · Apr 1, 2012

rice_farmer said:
I think whaling is indeed necessary, anyway why is the uproar happening now? In every way whaling is also called "hunting", which has literally been around since the stone ages, is humanity that dysfunctional that we can't recognize the simplest of things. Someone who is against whaling must also be against fishing:giggle:. By saying whaling is wrong; you’re also saying that all hunting is wrong. The way I see it is that it's either all animals or none at all, the so called people out to stop whaling are basically just attention grabbing hypocrites not realizing how foolish their making themselves and their cause to be. Am I the only one who thinks this controversy over the collection of whales is just ridiculous?

I disagree with most of what you said in this post. I am not against "fishing". But I am against over fishing for no good reason. And why is whaling so "necessary" in modern times? All it takes is to watch that large whaling ship (factory) gushing blood from those peaceful animals to see that it is blood-lust gone wild. I have done a lot of hunting in my life. You seem to have little understanding of hunting. Real hunters don't go out and kill more than they need just because they can. The excuse that they do it for "research" makes no sense. Over the years that one ship has slaughtered enough animals to know everything they need to know. If not at least all they really are capable of learning.

There is nothing to be proud of with this type of so called hunting. And most of the world looks down on it today.

rice_farmer · Apr 1, 2012

DodgeFB said:
I disagree with most of what you said in this post. I am not against "fishing". But I am against over fishing for no good reason. And why is whaling so "necessary" in modern times? All it takes is to watch that large whaling ship (factory) gushing blood from those peaceful animals to see that it is blood-lust gone wild. I have done a lot of hunting in my life. You seem to have little understanding of hunting. Real hunters don't go out and kill more than they need just because they can. The excuse that they do it for "research" makes no sense. Over the years that one ship has slaughtered enough animals to know everything they need to know. If not at least all they really are capable of learning.

There is nothing to be proud of with this type of so called hunting. And most of the world looks down on it today.

I agree that killing an animal out of pure bloodlust is foolish but irrational people use this argument when they don't understand the entire situation, whaling is necessary. One whale gathered produces more than 3 tons of oil, this oil (also called sperm oil) is used in trains to keep them moving, trains ship necessary valuables across the US to keep the country running smoothly, if you didn’t know. Whaling is a necessary just as killing a cow for steak. It is easy to hate something when you don't know all angles of the story. Are you really seeing and understanding whaling or are you being told through today's media eyes?:giggle:

mogur · Apr 1, 2012

rice_farmer said:
Someone who is against whaling must also be against fishing:giggle:. By saying whaling is wrong; you’re also saying that all hunting is wrong. The way I see it is that it's either all animals or none at all, the so called people out to stop whaling are basically just attention grabbing hypocrites not realizing how foolish their making themselves and their cause to be. Am I the only one who thinks this controversy over the collection of whales is just ridiculous?

No, you are not alone. But neither was the Spanish Inquisition. Okay, that statement was a little over the top, but so is yours. Fish and whales are two different things. Every living creature 'below' humans are not the same. A horsetail or bacterium are not panda bears. Whales are mammals. We are mammals. We suckle our young. We are intelligent. That doesn't make us 'above' 'lower orders', but it does make us brothers with intelligent and suckling whales (and of course, pandas).

Let's get down to it. A fish reacts to pain. They have a mating instinct. But that is about how far it goes. They don't fear impending death. They school, but they don't form societal units (much less familial relationships). Whales, on the other hand not only identify with their own social groups and communicate, but in many ways have the same head trips that we do. They (and dolphins, too) have rescued humans in distress. A shark (fish, btw) wouldn't rescue a human if Donald Trump told them to.

Look it, you obviously believe the bible when it tells you that we have dominion over all animals. But I beg to disagree. All creatures on this planet today have survived everything thrown at them (including us). They all deserve respect. But us humans need to eat plants and animals to survive, until synthetic food is invented. Would you rather kill an intelligent, social animal (not to mention, cute), or an ugly, stupid shark?

J/k, sharks are sorta cute, too. But they are not smart, and cows are not smart. They don't grieve, and I don't grieve about eating a hamburger. But let's think about the social fabric that is torn asunder by killing a whale.

myp · Apr 1, 2012

rice_farmer said:
I think whaling is indeed necessary, anyway why is the uproar happening now? In every way whaling is also called "hunting", which has literally been around since the stone ages, is humanity that dysfunctional that we can't recognize the simplest of things. Someone who is against whaling must also be against fishing:giggle:. By saying whaling is wrong; you’re also saying that all hunting is wrong. The way I see it is that it's either all animals or none at all, the so called people out to stop whaling are basically just attention grabbing hypocrites not realizing how foolish their making themselves and their cause to be. Am I the only one who thinks this controversy over the collection of whales is just ridiculous?

It is about sustainability. You might say starting a small fire to keep warm is okay in certain situations, but you surely wouldn't say that burning down the whole woods to keep warm is okay, would you?

DodgeFB · Apr 1, 2012

rice_farmer said:
I agree that killing an animal out of pure bloodlust is foolish but irrational people use this argument when they don't understand the entire situation, whaling is necessary. One whale gathered produces more than 3 tons of oil, this oil (also called sperm oil) is used in trains to keep them moving, trains ship necessary valuables across the US to keep the country running smoothly, if you didn’t know. Whaling is a necessary just as killing a cow for steak. It is easy to hate something when you don't know all angles of the story. Are you really seeing and understanding whaling or are you being told through today's media eyes?:giggle:

Looks like I understand more than you think. There are many other sources of oil to run trains. That whaling ship uses fuel better used in a train. People say I resist progress. But even I know you don't need "sperm oil" to run trains today. Whaling is the same as poaching elephants for ivory and rhinoceros for the horn. Those things need to remain in the past from which they came.

mogur · Apr 1, 2012

Save a whale, sperm a train. Heck, I'll donate.

DodgeFB · Apr 1, 2012

mogur said:
Save a whale, sperm a train. Heck, I'll donate.

There ya go!

rice_farmer · Apr 1, 2012

mogur said:
No, you are not alone. But neither was the Spanish Inquisition. Okay, that statement was a little over the top, but so is yours. Fish and whales are two different things. Every living creature 'below' humans are not the same. A horsetail or bacterium are not panda bears. Whales are mammals. We are mammals. We suckle our young. We are intelligent. That doesn't make us 'above' 'lower orders', but it does make us brothers with intelligent and suckling whales (and of course, pandas).

Let's get down to it. A fish reacts to pain. They have a mating instinct. But that is about how far it goes. They don't fear impending death. They school, but they don't form societal units (much less familial relationships). Whales, on the other hand not only identify with their own social groups and communicate, but in many ways have the same head trips that we do. They (and dolphins, too) have rescued humans in distress. A shark (fish, btw) wouldn't rescue a human if Donald Trump told them to.

Look it, you obviously believe the bible when it tells you that we have dominion over all animals. But I beg to disagree. All creatures on this planet today have survived everything thrown at them (including us). They all deserve respect. But us humans need to eat plants and animals to survive, until synthetic food is invented. Would you rather kill an intelligent, social animal (not to mention, cute), or an ugly, stupid shark?

J/k, sharks are sorta cute, too. But they are not smart, and cows are not smart. They don't grieve, and I don't grieve about eating a hamburger. But let's think about the social fabric that is torn asunder by killing a whale.

How would you know that a fish doesn't fear impending death, fish are fairly intelligent animals, how else could explain the communication amongst them, and their ability to find and catch prey in their own fashion, sounds pretty smart to me. My point is that all living creatures have some sort of intelligence, basically what was stated in your quote was that it is acceptable to kill all animals that don't reach the required bar of IQ haha... (or the other criteria if their cute or not ) . Animals are animals, sure they share certain traits with us, but it is humanity who has authority. This was decided by God and this topic shouldn't cause such a massive uproar, either complain about all animals or none of the animals, anything in between is just foolish.

mogur · Apr 1, 2012

rice_farmer said:
How would you know that a fish doesn't fear impending death, fish are fairly intelligent animals, how else could explain the communication amongst them, and their ability to find and catch prey in their own fashion, sounds pretty smart to me. My point is that all living creatures have some sort of intelligence, basically what was stated in your quote was that it is acceptable to kill all animals that don't reach the required bar of IQ haha... (or the other criteria if their cute or not ) . Animals are animals, sure they share certain traits with us, but it is humanity who has authority. This was decided by God and this topic shouldn't cause such a massive uproar, either complain about all animals or none of the animals, anything in between is just foolish.

Ah, but you didn't understand my post, my friend. Fish are NOT fairly intelligent animals. How could you even say that if you are a fisherman? They definitely DO NOT communicate. Jelly fish find and catch prey. And they are not intelligent (except for box jellyfish which possibly stalk prey, but you don't find any distinction in critters). Anyway, my 'quote' was that apex hunters (us) can do whatever we want, but your claim to 'godly' dominion over animals is foolish. Your 'authority' is unfounded, except for your predilection for your bible.

My point was exactly opposite of your description. We are animals. We all are at the top of our evolutionary branch. You think we are godsends. Whales perceive us sometimes as murderers. Cows don't care.

But to say that I 'rank' species by intelligence is to completely miss the entire emphasis of my post, not to mention the exact wording of my post. Are you a fish? Grin.

rice_farmer · Apr 1, 2012

mogur said:
Ah, but you didn't understand my post, my friend. Fish are NOT fairly intelligent animals. How could you even say that if you are a fisherman? They definitely DO NOT communicate. Jelly fish find and catch prey. And they are not intelligent (except for box jellyfish which possibly stalk prey, but you don't find any distinction in critters). Anyway, my 'quote' was that apex hunters (us) can do whatever we want, but your claim to 'godly' dominion over animals is foolish. Your 'authority' is unfounded, except for your predilection for your bible.

My point was exactly opposite of your description. We are animals. We all are at the top of our evolutionary branch. You think we are godsends. Whales perceive us sometimes as murderers. Cows don't care.

But to say that I 'rank' species by intelligence is to completely miss the entire emphasis of my post, not to mention the exact wording of my post. Are you a fish? Grin.

Yes fish are intelligent animals, explain how they decipher their own kind and swim in classes, and their ability to create relationships with other under water species (not a romantic one btw). I am not going to decide which animals are acceptable to hunt because of their cuteness/ IQ level, but as humans we have dominion over the Earth and it is our choice no matter how much you disagree with it. You may consider yourself as an animal and maybe I agree with that, but as for me, I feel all animals are subjective to any fate humanity brings upon them. Say Mogar, do you like fish sticks?:giggle:

mogur · Apr 1, 2012

I certainly do love fish sticks. Except the ones from Gortons. They sat on our chair for two weeks until we noticed the smell.

So, no I love you, since you are intelligent. I don't want to eat you. Why do you want to eat whales? And yes, I prefer to eat stupid animals instead of intelligent animals. I just can't figure out why you think whales are stupid and okay to kill.

myp · Apr 1, 2012

rice_farmer said:
Yes fish are intelligent animals, explain how they decipher their own kind and swim in classes, and their ability to create relationships with other under water species (not a romantic one btw). I am not going to decide which animals are acceptable to hunt because of their cuteness/ IQ level, but as humans we have dominion over the Earth and it is our choice no matter how much you disagree with it. You may consider yourself as an animal and maybe I agree with that, but as for me, I feel all animals are subjective to any fate humanity brings upon them. Say Mogar, do you like fish sticks?:giggle:

You can argue subjectively over what is right and wrong to eat or kill, but the matter of sustainability is something where there are logical and scientific explanations and consequences. Over-whaling or over-fishing is not good for ecosystems nor is it good for humans, ESPECIALLY if you like whales or fish (or eating/hunting them). Why? Because if you over-hunt them today, they might be gone tomorrow and you essentially deprive future humans from having access to your animal (or even your future self). Overfishing can lead to reduced utility over the long run for fish eaters, hunters, enthusiasts etc.

Schmidt · Apr 3, 2012

mogur said:
I certainly do love fish sticks. Except the ones from Gortons. They sat on our chair for two weeks until we noticed the smell.

So, no I love you, since you are intelligent. I don't want to eat you. Why do you want to eat whales? And yes, I prefer to eat stupid animals instead of intelligent animals. I just can't figure out why you think whales are stupid and okay to kill.

i think they are smart and i also think that they have something that we want
what we need to do is find a way to mass breed them so there will be more so we can kill more of them

DodgeFB · Apr 3, 2012

Schmidt said:
i think they are smart and i also think that they have something that we want
what we need to do is find a way to mass breed them so there will be more so we can kill more of them

Now that is a new one for me. Maybe we could mass breed people and chose who to keep and who to kill off. Heck we could experiment on some of them and have faster cures for the sick people that we want to live.

rice_farmer · Apr 3, 2012

DodgeFB said:
Now that is a new one for me. Maybe we could mass breed people and chose who to keep and who to kill off. Heck we could experiment on some of them and have faster cures for the sick people that we want to live.

No Dodge that would be murder, but I’m open to that curing idea of yours. Try to think about what your going to say before you say it. And just because I’m in HONG KONG doesn't mean my views are different. :giggle:

Schmidt · Apr 3, 2012

DodgeFB said:
Now that is a new one for me. Maybe we could mass breed people and chose who to keep and who to kill off. Heck we could experiment on some of them and have faster cures for the sick people that we want to live.

you need to calm down and think
what does it say in the constitution-humans have certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

are you a vegetarian?
do you eat meat?

if you have ever eaten a hamburger then you are encouraging the killing and eating of animals

what makes a pig different from a whale

it is about the survival of our species

mogur · Apr 3, 2012

I grieve for the constant wailing, not to mention the gnashing of hulls, whenever a combine comes rumbling down an aisle of plant crops. Who is to say that a McFry deserved to die and a McFish didn't?

mogur · Apr 3, 2012

Schmidt said:
i think they are smart and i also think that they have something that we want
what we need to do is find a way to mass breed them so there will be more so we can kill more of them

Grin, you are one smart cracker. Sea World. Sea world is the answer. Breed them and eat them. Buluga is not just for caviar, it's for dominion. I want the testicles. But only if it is vegan testicles. Bulugas are not just cute, their parents are delicious. And the babies are more so. An aborted fetus is my favorite, but of course, that may offend human rightists, but what do I care? Fish and whales are both our dominion. And 'god' gave us that right. We can eat whatever we want, as long as it is not hooved, or unclean. (I get your humor, my friend and agree with you.)

rice_farmer · Apr 3, 2012

mogur said:
Grin, I want the testicles. But only if it is vegan testicles. An aborted fetus is my favorite, but that may offend human rightists, but what do I care?

Woah mogur, I didn't know you felt that way.

The Universal Whaling Issue

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