Switzerland proposes tougher measures against right-to-die organizations

[myp]

Here is a topic that most of the world doesn't deal with much. In Switzerland, assisted-suicide is currently legal and thousands of foreigners and domestic people have used these services to end their lives over the years. Amid the growing controversy of such organizations, a couple of bills have been proposed in the country which would make it harder for assisted suicide to happen or perhaps even ban it altogether.

Full story here, an interesting read: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703414504575001363599545120.html

Thoughts?

 

[Daktoria]

The right to die is a perfect example of why government should be minimized. Is it tolerable? Yes, but barely. A humane government has to first show that it's loyal to living constituents, so a right to life has to be acknowledged as well. Otherwise, the government can exploit naive individuals under duress just to advance ulterior motives by literally subsidizing the killing off of dissent, subsidizing which starts with the social engineering of lifestyles such that frustrated individuals don't want to live anymore since every waking moment feels like torture.

 

[GOP]

I agree with Daktoria. It's also got to the with the moral fabric a government shows, and it's very low. It's very hard to say "this is right, and that's wrong". But people should never be helped to die, that is to me immoral!

 

[DodgeFB]

I agree with Daktoria. It's also got to the with the moral fabric a government shows, and it's very low. It's very hard to say "this is right, and that's wrong". But people should never be helped to die, that is to me immoral!

I could not disagree more.I have had to think about this more than most for a long time. Is it better to just take your medicine and be with your family when you die? Or cut your wrist in the bathroom? Or as one of my friends did, put a shotgun under your chin and pull the trigger with your toe? And let someone "just find you". Pain control is not what some think it is.

 

[GOP]

I could not disagree more.I have had to think about this more than most for a long time. Is it better to just take your medicine and be with your family when you die? Or cut your wrist in the bathroom? Or as one of my friends did, put a shotgun under your chin and pull the trigger with your toe? And let someone "just find you". Pain control is not what some think it is.

It definitely is NOT okay. But that the government should be a part of assisting your death. How can you always control that someone would like to die? It would be a grave mistreating of people. First of all, not everyone of the patients are awake, they are either drugged or in a coma. Who are going to make these decisions? The family, friends? How can you, in every single case, actually make sure that the person you are speaking to really WANTS to die? I believe it's very difficult. We should focus on helping people back to life. Supporting to them live, not supporting them to die.

 

[DodgeFB]

It definitely is NOT okay. But that the government should be a part of assisting your death. How can you always control that someone would like to die? It would be a grave mistreating of people. First of all, not everyone of the patients are awake, they are either drugged or in a coma. Who are going to make these decisions? The family, friends? How can you, in every single case, actually make sure that the person you are speaking to really WANTS to die? I believe it's very difficult. We should focus on helping people back to life. Supporting to them live, not supporting them to die.

I have a "living will" that covers that for me. And a DNR to back it up. All legal so no one has to feel bad.

Making people suffer and linger when they can't get well is the mistreatment.

 

[GOP]

I have a "living will" that covers that for me. And a DNR to back it up. All legal so no one has to feel bad.

It's easy to speak of yourself as an individual. But what about the millions, or billions for that matter of other people?

Making people suffer and linger when they can't get well is the mistreatment.

Not giving people the opportunities they deserve to live is the mistreatment. I think society is brutal in this way that when we don't feel comfortable with something or are hurting we'll just give it all up. One day can be bad, but you never know what's around the corner.

 

[DodgeFB]

It's easy to speak of yourself as an individual. But what about the millions, or billions for that matter of other people?



Not giving people the opportunities they deserve to live is the mistreatment. I think society is brutal in this way that when we don't feel comfortable with something or are hurting we'll just give it all up. One day can be bad, but you never know what's around the corner.

You may change your mind when you get to that corner. I did. And making people hang on and suffer so we don't "feel bad" is just selfish.

 

[GOP]

You may change your mind when you get to that corner. I did. And making people hang on and suffer so we don't "feel bad" is just selfish.

No. The selfishness belongs to the person who thinks he or she is in power to decide others right to live.

 

[DodgeFB]

No. The selfishness belongs to the person who thinks he or she is in power to decide others right to live.

Or the person who thinks they can decide someone else's right to die. So it goes both ways.

 

[GOP]

Or the person who thinks they can decide someone else's right to die. So it goes both ways.

No it doesn't. No one will decide that, but the difference is that in a situation were you can't possibly get a good answer from the person you're speaking to, what are you going to do? Are you still going to cut the lifeline or what? Or are you going to contact family and friends? This is a very complex situation for doctors and if someone are given the power to kill someone, I think it's going to be very misused.

 

[DodgeFB]

No it doesn't. No one will decide that, but the difference is that in a situation were you can't possibly get a good answer from the person you're speaking to, what are you going to do? Are you still going to cut the lifeline or what? Or are you going to contact family and friends? This is a very complex situation for doctors and if someone are given the power to kill someone, I think it's going to be very misused.

Doctors decide that everyday. They don't admit it.

 

[GOP]

Doctors decide that everyday. They don't admit it.

So then you want to give up to the systems power and just legalize it instead of trying to prevent it?

 

[DodgeFB]

So then you want to give up to the systems power and just legalize it instead of trying to prevent it?

No! But people that feel like you scare the hell out of me. Because without ever having to deal with "there is no better" they fight like hell to keep people hanging on for years. That is what makes some people just go on and "do it" while they can. You don't want to stick around until you can't take care of it for yourself.

 

[GOP]

No! But people that feel like you scare the hell out of me. Because without ever having to deal with "there is no better" they fight like hell to keep people hanging on for years. That is what makes some people just go on and "do it" while they can. You don't want to stick around until you can't take care of it for yourself.

No, but the reason for why I believe in this is because I believe that there is nothing more valuable in life than life itself and it should take more than a piece of paper and a pen to end it.

 

[DodgeFB]

No, but the reason for why I believe in this is because I believe that there is nothing more valuable in life than life itself and it should take more than a piece of paper and a pen to end it.

I should have the right to put my own value on my life. It is one thing to stop people from killing others. But when they try to stop me from killing me they are "butting in" on something very private.

 

[GOP]

I should have the right to put my own value on my life. It is one thing to stop people from killing others. But when they try to stop me from killing me they are "butting in" on something very private.

I can see what you mean. But what about the people around you? I believe suicide is a selfish act in itself, but now it's legalized and supervised suicide. This gives a twisted signal to the public that it's okay to commit suicide.

 

[DodgeFB]

I can see what you mean. But what about the people around you? I believe suicide is a selfish act in itself, but now it's legalized and supervised suicide. This gives a twisted signal to the public that it's okay to commit suicide.

I am just lucky enough that after years of explaining even my 80 year old mother understands how I feel. See I don't want to die in my garage alone in the dark. I would want my family and friends at my side supporting me just as they did every time I signed the papers for chemotherapy. Those papers say that you understand this treatment may kill you. So it is a decision we all made more than once.

 

[GOP]

I am just lucky enough that after years of explaining even my 80 year old mother understands how I feel. See I don't want to die in my garage alone in the dark. I would want my family and friends at my side supporting me just as they did every time I signed the papers for chemotherapy. Those papers say that you understand this treatment may kill you. So it is a decision we all made more than once.

Of course, but not choosing chemotherapy you also stand with the option of death so we're not speaking of predicaments. We're speaking of the fact that others should make this decision for you, that's the natural consequence because when you're sick, drugged or in a coma you're not yourself to put it bluntly. How can you then know what this person feels? What sort of security around this will it? Can a doctor make this decision alone, or does he need to have to have support from family or friends and how do you know that these people are who they claim to be? What sort of security measures will you take? I can't see that there's anything secure about it. It got nothing to do with me respecting people's choices or being selfish as you claimed, it has to do with the understanding that society doesn't work so neat as hit has to do if this can legalized. I fear that too many will either misuse it or too many doctors will make the wrong decisions.

 

[DodgeFB]

Of course, but not choosing chemotherapy you also stand with the option of death so we're not speaking of predicaments. We're speaking of the fact that others should make this decision for you, that's the natural consequence because when you're sick, drugged or in a coma you're not yourself to put it bluntly. How can you then know what this person feels? What sort of security around this will it? Can a doctor make this decision alone, or does he need to have to have support from family or friends and how do you know that these people are who they claim to be? What sort of security measures will you take? I can't see that there's anything secure about it. It got nothing to do with me respecting people's choices or being selfish as you claimed, it has to do with the understanding that society doesn't work so neat as hit has to do if this can legalized. I fear that too many will either misuse it or too many doctors will make the wrong decisions.

The doctor should be the last one to decide. But it usually comes down to the doctor when the time comes. Because no one wants to deal with it up front before things go bad. Three years ago in Oct. my oldest daughter was killed on the way to work. Do I wish that had not happened. I sure do. Would I ask for her back with me with those injuries? Hell no. I would rather feel the pain of her being gone than ask her to live like they said it would have been. And that is as close to me laying my guts out to the world as I can get. That is how strongly I feel about the right to die.