Are US armed forces out of control? (spin-off thread)

[GOP]

Pulling out now would be utter madness. We won the Vietnam war, the Tet Offensive was a total total failure. But we gave up and left. The Vet Con were finished. The NVA was in full retreat. We effectively surrendered and left.

We can't make that mistake again.

This is why The US deserves a lot of respect from the outside world. American has got the experience in helping and developing democracy and liberty in countries where you could never predict democracy as a solution. This is the repertoire of American and British soldiers, we should be proud of participating in Afghanistan.

 

[David]

This is why The US deserves a lot of respect from the outside world. American has got the experience in helping and developing democracy and liberty in countries where you could never predict democracy as a solution. This is the repertoire of American and British soldiers, we should be proud of participating in Afghanistan.

We didn't do much 'democracy building' in Vietnam, but I see the point you're making and agree.

 

[GOP]

Of course it's not possible to be a 100% perfect at every single point through history, and Vietnam had its flaws but the most important part to remember is that 20 years ago the ideology the Americans tried to defeat while they were present in Vietnam, was finally, after 40 long years fight it was defeated!

 

[David]

Of course it's not possible to be a 100% perfect at every single point through history, and Vietnam had its flaws but the most important part to remember is that 20 years ago the ideology the Americans tried to defeat while they were present in Vietnam, was finally, after 40 long years fight it was defeated!

I'm still here, thank you.

 

[GOP]

I'm still here, thank you.

I know you are
But I hope you are happy for this cruel ideology being defeated, I hope you also can see that as a victory.

 

[David]

I know you are
But I hope you are happy for this cruel ideology being defeated, I hope you also can see that as a victory.

Happy?! I'm a socialist! :giggle:

 

[GOP]

Happy?! I'm a socialist! :giggle:

It was worth a shot

 

[David]

It was worth a shot

At least we can both be happy the communists were kept in their places. That would have been a disaster when their 'utopian*society' blew up in their and by extension, our faces.

 

[GOP]

At least we can both be happy the communists were kept in their places. That would have been a disaster when their 'utopian*society' blew up in their and by extension, our faces.

They shouldn't have had a place to start off with.

 

[David]

They shouldn't have had a place in the first place.

Agreed.

 

[chuck schmidt]

And if Bush didn't react at all, what then would've happened?

America would have retained the high moral ground, would not be a world pariah, and could have quietly slit as many throats as it wanted behind drawn curtains.

The hatred and terrorist actions would just stop?

More hate America now than ever before.

 

[chuck schmidt]

It's a war of attrition, we simply need to stick it out.

How silly. The US has 300,000,000 people. Asia has 2,000,000,000. Go ahead, play their game. Are any of your children dying, and what was the cause again?

 

[David]

How silly. The US has 300,000,000 people. Asia has 2,000,000,000. Go ahead, play their game. Are any of your children dying, and what was the cause again?

We're not at war with Asia, however.

 

[GOP]

America would have retained the high moral ground, would not be a world pariah, and could have quietly slit as many throats as it wanted behind drawn curtains.

But that's not Bush. Bush is not a coward and he dares to face terrorists and have a war to liberate countries. I am 99.99% sure of that if the US decided not do anything after 9/11, people would complain because they didn't do anything.
The Europeans are experts at putting all the blame on Americans, I think we should go back in time and learn ourselves a little history about how Americans have always been there for us.

 

[Dirk]

More hate America now than ever before.

Funny that.

 

[chuck schmidt]

But that's not Bush. Bush is not a coward and he dares to face terrorists and have a war to liberate countries. I am 99.99% sure of that if the US decided not do anything after 9/11, people would complain because they didn't do anything.

Your opinion of Bush is not universally shared. The IRA have bombed British royalty and the Brits have never responded as childishly as Bush.

The Europeans are experts at putting all the blame on Americans, I think we should go back in time and learn ourselves a little history about how Americans have always been there for us.

Then we diasgree. Americans have never had to live with fascism until Bush. Euros watched it create WW2. Nor has America always been there. In WW1 and WW2 it watched first to see what was going to happen before choosing sides. In WW2 US Ambassador to London Joseph Kennedy often warned FDR that the Germans were going to win and America should be wary about choosing yet.

 

[GOP]

Americans have never had to live with fascism until Bush.

Tell me, what is fascism? Your definition fascism? Because I think we have a completely different way of interpreting what fascism is.

Euros watched it create WW2. Nor has America always been there. In WW1 and WW2 it watched first to see what was going to happen before choosing sides.

Haha, watched to choose sides? This is an outright lie. The Americans were already supporting the British before Pearl Harbour.

In WW2 US Ambassador to London Joseph Kennedy often warned FDR that the Germans were going to win and America should be wary about choosing yet.

And these were individual voices, and not the part of the greater American voice. This is just a desperate attempt to blame the US, once more, but really, if it hadn't been for America, Europe would have pretty conditions today.

 

[chuck schmidt]

We're not at war with Asia, however.

Any war of attrition against any Asian land power is the geo-political equivalent of tickling the dragon's tail.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Slotin. At Los Alamos … criticality testing … with uranium … and … plutonium cores. … involved bringing masses of fissile materials to near-critical levels. ... Scientists referred to this … as "tickling the dragon's tail."

 

[GOP]

Any war of attrition against any Asian land power is the geo-political equivalent of tickling the dragon's tail.

So fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan is the same as fighting Japan and South Korea? Please...

 

[David]

Then we diasgree. Americans have never had to live with fascism until Bush. Euros watched it create WW2. Nor has America always been there. In WW1 and WW2 it watched first to see what was going to happen before choosing sides. In WW2 US Ambassador to London Joseph Kennedy often warned FDR that the Germans were going to win and America should be wary about choosing yet.

Chose sides? We chose sides right out, in fact the Nazis planned an abortive coup because they realized the sitting gov't was in the Allied camp. We waited in WW1 because it wasn't an American war until a Mexican/German plan to conquer the US was discovered. We waited in WW2 because of how many people died in WW1, that is until Japan started conquering the US, it was our war at that point.

It wasn't about choosing sides, it was waiting to send millions to die until they became defensive wars. You know, the only wars that the us is able to Constitutionally fight?