Evaluating Obama

[Calvin]

Is the president really doing that bad a job? I read recently that 500 days of his administration are now up. In my view, he hasn't been a slouch. Its not like he just parties all the time, and has a call girl addicition (ie. Like Italian president Berlusconi). He has to some extent repaired America's ailing relationship with the rest of the world after Bush pretty much pissed in everyone's face.

So from the viewpoint of the international community, undoubtedly Obama has improved America's standing and relationship among the international community.

But perhaps domestically he is not doing as good a job. That said, I did like the way he took on Big Pharma to create universal healthcare for the most impoverished of Americans. Everytime he says something, he sounds intelligent - which again, is a step up from George Bush. And knowing he is intelligent create some confidence in him as a national leader.

 

[el canadiano]

Time will tell is the right answer internally. Externally, he's improved diplomatic relationships with numerous countries with his lack of ignorance (at least in comparison with a few past leaders) and neutrality. What I would like to see him do is get one fiscal year with a surplus. That would in fact make him that much better than him. However, who knows? Maybe if GM suddenly has a miraculous year with their "Consumer's Digest" awards and their "highway" fuel efficiency, maybe he could sell the business off.

 

[Dirk]

I vote "time will tell". I don't like to judge people too quickly. He is a considerable improvement, but he's... too much of a... centrist for me.

 

[David]

Internationally, he's crewed up with Iran and N. Korea but then I agreed with his Iran position myself (so I really can't complain being just as wrong) and you can't really risk it with N. Korea. Otherwise, best diplomatic president we've had in decades.

Domestically... Bush 2.0 with new and improved brain power!

 

[Dirk]

I should also say, he spends way too much time trying to appease the right.

 

[David]

I should also say, he spends way too much time trying to appease the right.

As I said, Bush 2.0. anyone who thinks he's a leftist is delusional.

 

[Frogger]

This thread illustrates how perceptions may differ greatly. David thinks Obama is Bush 2 and not a leftist, Calvin seems to think he is doing a pretty good job and Dirk thinks he is too much a centrist and spends too much time appeasing Republicans.

I see Obama very differently. I see him as the most left leaning president in recent American history. I see him as someone who has committed foreign policy gaff after foreign policy gaff and someone who has scorned our traditional alllies while cozzening up to those who should be our enemies. Obama is anything but a centrist and rather than spending too much time appeasing Republicans he has done his best to cut them out of the government. Obama is one of the most partisan presidents this country has seen since Andrew Jackson.

 

[Calvin]

I see him as the most left leaning president in recent American history.

Okay, but is that really a bad thing after so many right wing presidents?

I see him as someone who has committed foreign policy gaff after foreign policy gaff and someone who has scorned our traditional alllies while cozzening up to those who should be our enemies.

Can you describe some of these foreign policy gaffes? I think generally the international community is much fonder of Obama than they were of Bush, even if there have been some gaffe's.

Obama is one of the most partisan presidents this country has seen since Andrew Jackson.

Again though, this is a good thing. Its nice to know that the Republicans aren't calling 100% of the shots (even if they do get to call a good 85% or so).

 

[jdsingle]

I don't like how he is pushing this whole Healthcare issue as well as his handling of foreign affairs. Voting between McCain and Obama was like voting between a gerbil and a guinea pig. I'm just fortunate enough to not really have felt this economic turmoil we are in. I don't like his fiscal policy and I don't think he is doing anything to help erase "Bush's Debt"

 

[myp]

Okay, but is that really a bad thing after so many right wing presidents?

Bush increased the size of government drastically, increased government spending, and increased intervention in the markets- all things associated with modern American leftism. Just because someone says they are a conservative, doesn't mean they are.

 

[David]

Bush increased the size of government drastically, increased government spending, and increased intervention in the markets- all things associated with modern American leftism. Just because someone says they are a conservative, doesn't mean they are.

Tp preempt this, I never made the claimed that he was a conservative. Hell he isn't even a capitalist!

 

[Dirk]

Dirk thinks he is too much a centrist and spends too much time appeasing Republicans.

Pretty much. Though I respect Comrade David's views a lot, so I may be inclined to agree with him if he explained his reasoning a little further. I can think of certain instances he may have a point, but as an outside spectator, I may need a little more convincing.

I see him as the most left leaning president in recent American history.

That's not saying much. Anyway, Obama isn't even a very good liberal, let alone a leftist.

I see him as someone who has committed foreign policy gaff after foreign policy gaff and someone who has scorned our traditional alllies while cozzening up to those who should be our enemies.

I have no problem with him criticising Israel, just so long as he doesn't support Palestine. I have some major problems with Hamas etc, plus there's my heritage, which I do tend to take into account, more and more. Also, are you suggesting that potential "enemies" shouldn't be negotiated with?

Obama is anything but a centrist and rather than spending too much time appeasing Republicans he has done his best to cut them out of the government.

Partisanship is neither surprising, nor a sign of leftism. The issue is that the Republicans are taking a ridiculously rigid line, and refuse to compromise.

I don't like how he is pushing this whole Healthcare issue

That was ridiculous. It's such a sissy bill. It really annoyed me. It should have been a far more radical change, and there should have been far fewer compromises. My ideal would have seen a completely different idea, not to mention his bill didn't even address half the issues it claimed, nor did it go far enough.

as well as his handling of foreign affairs.

Which area in particular?

I'm just fortunate enough to not really have felt this economic turmoil we are in. I don't like his fiscal policy and I don't think he is doing anything to help erase "Bush's Debt"

I don't like his fiscal policy, but I do believe a good portion of the money has been paid back, hasn't it?

Bush increased the size of government drastically, increased government spending, and increased intervention in the markets- all things associated with modern American leftism. Just because someone says they are a conservative, doesn't mean they are.

Increasing government spending or intervening in "the markets" is not necessarily a leftist thing to do. Stop stereotyping.

Tp preempt this, I never made the claimed that he was a conservative. Hell he isn't even a capitalist!

He was still a bourgeois lap dog.

 

[notimpressed]

I expected full reverse of Bush impositions on rights, and immediate constructive dialogue on withdrawal from both wars. Nadda, he’s another snake oil salesmen. Now with BP, yeah I'd call him Bush 2

 

[Calvin]

I don't like how he is pushing this whole Healthcare issue as well as his handling of foreign affairs. Voting between McCain and Obama was like voting between a gerbil and a guinea pig.

But McCain was a war hero and is a pretty switched on intelligent man for his age. I think the US for the first time in ages actually had 2 really, really good choices to pick from.

I would have been a little disappointed in McCain had won, and he performed much better in the actual election than I though he would by the way, but I wouldn't have been tremendously sad about his victory.

 

[jdsingle]

That's not saying much. Anyway, Obama isn't even a very good liberal, let alone a leftist.

That was ridiculous. It's such a sissy bill. It really annoyed me. It should have been a far more radical change, and there should have been far fewer compromises. My ideal would have seen a completely different idea, not to mention his bill didn't even address half the issues it claimed, nor did it go far enough.

Which area in particular?

I don't like his fiscal policy, but I do believe a good portion of the money has been paid back, hasn't it?

Sleep meds are kicking it but I wanted to quote this so I can come back later to expand on it. Sorry.

I do have to ask, what more would you like to have seen on the health care bill? Did you want more out of it? How so? I'm hesitant about the financial impact this is going to have on the taxpayers.

 

[David]

He was still a bourgeois lap dog.

I don't know, at the end he seemed to reject capitalism as much as he could without having the s word thrown at him while at the same time avoiding 3rd-way economics. A socialist not at all but maybe a capitalist in the middle of a change of mind?

In his own words, "We need to redefine Capitalism." It screams a rejection of the bourgeois without actually admitting it. For every pro-capitalist action you name, I could find at least 1 plausible reason other then being pro-capitalism assuming a hidden agenda. Regardless of his aims, the rise of state-capitalism is something that must be reversed as I'm sure everyone will agree.

Bush was America's Gorbachev I think. Granted the only way to know 100% if I'm right is if the left sees a resurgence and Bush quietly approves.

 

[Kyuubi]

Okay, but is that really a bad thing after so many right wing presidents?

Extremes on either "side" of the spectrum are bad enough. You don't solve problems by going from one extreme to the other, which is largely what we ended up doing. Albeit, not everything Bush did was opposite of Obama, this is seen with their common ground on the stimulus package toward the end of his 2nd term, as well as areas of spending (increasing the national debt, and all)

That was ridiculous. It's such a sissy bill. It really annoyed me. It should have been a far more radical change, and there should have been far fewer compromises. My ideal would have seen a completely different idea, not to mention his bill didn't even address half the issues it claimed, nor did it go far enough.

What it will do, is ratchet up our already astronomically high national debt because the bill was so poorly constructed. Social security & medicare immediately comes to mind. Welfare programs in general here in the states have a history of being financially screwed up in the end. Similar patterns are emerging in a number of European countries which have long established social programs, including those like healthcare and the European equivalents to social security.

 

[notimpressed]

The cost of having basic human decency is always a big issue. Dropping 2000 pounds of HE on a mud hut for several million a mission....no problem. It’s just Ridiculous incompetence, rampant corruption and squandering of money are problems with politicians in general on all levels of government. Welfare isn’t breaking this nation Health Care wouldn’t either. The thieves that run it are. A century of not longer worth of lying, greedy corrupt professional politicians.

 

[jdsingle]

The cost of having basic human decency is always a big issue. Dropping 2000 pounds of HE on a mud hut for several million a mission....no problem. It?s just Ridiculous incompetence, rampant corruption and squandering of money are problems with politicians in general on all levels of government. Welfare isn?t breaking this nation Health Care wouldn?t either. The thieves that run it are. A century of not longer worth of lying, greedy corrupt professional politicians.

Ever looked out how much of the Fiscal budget is allocated and/or is spent on Welfare? I believe in FY 2008 it was something around 55% of the budget. How can you say the defense of the nation is crippling us more than the welfare programs we implement and people game.

 

[notimpressed]

Well quoting a number from thin air is meaningless. The myth of welfare being the issue derives from selfish lot that, follows Jesus but hates the idea of a good Samaritan but relish the idea of mass destruction.