I don't understand what you mean by this paragraph. Do not men have control over their own bodies? Why should a woman need a mans permission to decide what happens to her self?
I don't understand what you mean by this paragraph. Do not men have control over their own bodies? Why should a woman need a mans permission to decide what happens to her self?
Medical science can only do that because it essentially would mimic the conditions in the womb that the baby needs
I think the bigger issue that needs to be looked at with abortion other than the subjective definition of human life and the subjective opinion on human rights is the after-birth life of the baby. A baby born to a mother who wanted to abort it might not have the most caring upbringing.
Medical science dose not mimic a womb, it helps the baby develope properly outside the womb.
She has all the right to decide what happens to her body, but when she is shareing it with another potential person, that fetus needs to be recognized as not nessasarily a person but more than a desiesed kidney, or a tumor. A man dosent carry a baby in his body, but that otherwise healthy fetus is as much part of him as it is her.
If her life is in sagnifigant risk, she should get final say, of course. But if I let someone kill my potential son or daughter I am not a good man, wheather its the mother or another.
Basically put a lady who sneeks out and kills my potential child or a so called doctor who dose it has assulted me.
I agree that the father should have a say IF and only IF he is playing a large and prominent part in the childs care, welfare and general day to day life.
The reason I asked is because I believe that quite alot of men don't realize the impact a pregnancy / birth has on a woman from a purely biological view. Hormones kick in and everything is different.
Neither do I believe that any woman would terminate a pregnancy and walk away from it mentally ( sometimes physically) unscathed no matter what the reason for termination was.
Its very easy to tell somewhat what to do when the person doing the telling isnt the one who has to carry out the doing.
Telling a woman who has been raped that she has to continue a pregnancy and give birth the the child then either care for the baby or give it up for adoption seems a simple thing to do when only the mother knows the full scale of emotional termoil.
No, I don't think that abortion should be a quick fix and undertaken lightly but no, I don't believe that a man has the right to tell a woman what she shall do any more than she has a right to tell him.
in the case of rape or emenent thret to life I am okay with aborting, but why dose a woman have all the right over both gender's reproduction and the man has none. If it is utimately her decision and no one elses, that takes away a mans reproductive rights. Just because our young are incubated in a womans body, dosent give them athority over it.
Men have no womb and thus cannot reproduce on their own. The fetuses life is very much in a mans intrest as much as the womans. The man must also care enough about the woman to know what her limits are, and realize her body with their child is still hers and she has to bear more of the physical pain.
These things should not be a womans decition but the potintial parents decision. In the case of an absentee father, just as he has no say in the raising of said child, he has no say in the birth of such a child.
Where do women get the right to tell men that we have no right to our reproduction?
Women have 100% of the rights in reproduction men have 0. If I wanted an abortion and my girlfrend or wife did not my opinion dosent matter. How much more control is enough. In this system it is almost as if men are just sperm doners who have to pay child support against their will. It is not your reproductive rights, because you can't reproduce alone. It is our reproductive system, I want a say in it. True I will never know what its like to carry a baby, but women will never know what it is like to be excluded almost completely from the decision.
That is a very good reason for male and female to take their own precautions when having "fun" sex. That would eliminate so many problems for everyone involved.
It mimics the functions of a womb. Effectively, it acts as a womb in terms of what the baby receives and produces minus certain benefits and drawbacks that are not present out of choice, logistical issues, or scientific issues.
Its true that biologically speaking men have little to do with reproduction other than be the 'sperm doner'. Emotionally ofcourse it can be very different but when all is said and done, its the woman who has the pregnancy and birth so forcing her into it, in my opinion, would not be acceptable.
Its the same with birth control really isnt it...its more simple for the man to take responsibility but many prefer not to and if it comes down to one or other being sterilised as a final end to reproduction then again, men often refuse but its far more involved to have a hysterectomy than a vasectomy isnt it?
Its the same with birth control really isnt it...its more simple for the man to take responsibility but many prefer not to and if it comes down to one or other being sterilised as a final end to reproduction then again, men often refuse but its far more involved to have a hysterectomy than a vasectomy isnt it?
Women have excusive control over it, taking birth control, morning after pill, and other forms. The only control men have is a profilactic barrior. That is it
That is untrue, men have as much to do with it as women. Until women can reproduce asexually.
I never said anything about forcing a pregnancy, the only person that gets forced in the matter is the man. A woman can take a pill. It just requires a bit of forthought.
People who argue from pro chice angle forget that birth control is almost completely in the womans hands in the first place.
Aside from abortions after rape which are a small manority of all abortions. Women have almost complete control, how much more do you need.
In most cases men have control of who they have sex with. If anyone goes around getting all you can get and not protecting yourself abortion is just one of the possible bad results. If a guy goes around playing Johnny Appleseed his seed may be rejected at some time. It is sad all around. That is why you need to really know who you have sex with and what they want. If it is sporting sex, put a cap on it.
In most cases men have control of who they have sex with. If anyone goes around getting all you can get and not protecting yourself abortion is just one of the possible bad results. If a guy goes around playing Johnny Appleseed his seed may be rejected at some time. It is sad all around. That is why you need to really know who you have sex with and what they want. If it is sporting sex, put a cap on it.
That's absurd, yes a man can have many parteners. But it is not a mystery how babies are concived, if a woman is promiscuous and she dosent use her precautions then the blame is on her as well. She can start birth control long before she enters into behavior, a man cannot outside of a permenent disfigurement.
Okay so you think I am absurd!
Why is it not absurd to put all responsibility on the woman? Face it, just because she goes to bed with you does not mean she wants to raise your child. What kind of "disfigurement" does a condom cause? You must have been shopping in a strange place.
In most cases men have control of who they have sex with. If anyone goes around getting all you can get and not protecting yourself abortion is just one of the possible bad results. If a guy goes around playing Johnny Appleseed his seed may be rejected at some time. It is sad all around. That is why you need to really know who you have sex with and what they want. If it is sporting sex, put a cap on it.
Okay so you think I am absurd!
I wasn't refering to a condom as disfiguering, the alternative is, visectomy.
All the choice is with the woman, therefore if she gets pregnant its because she didn't take the precautions.
Either a man has to have forethought, or he is "punished with a baby" as it were, men have no reproductive rights, women have all of them.
Ether its a two way street or its not. Either men matter just as much as women or they don't.
It seems like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Men have to have forthought but women don't ?
The only steps we can take is before conception, why not put the same responsability on the female. Why is it nessacary to preform such a butal act of abortion, when all a person has to do is be prepared?
Let me just get this straight. I don't like abortion.
Therefore I look for reasons to avoid it. Since you think I talk out of both sides of my mouth I should tell you what I think you do.
I think you are selfish, don't really have a lot of respect for women, and don't want to take responsibility for anything.
How is that for straight talk?
See I can only control what I do. I don't control what women or anyone else does. That is why I have always tried to avoid having any child aborted. And thankfully I have never had to face having one of mine aborted. I just don't think your put the blame on the women while I do as I please will save many babies. If you hate abortion so much grow up and do all you can to prevent the need.
I am tired of this childish conversion. It is plain to see that you just don't care enough to man up and stop playing the blame her game.
And since you see a baby as punishment, it is best you don't ever have any. They are a blessing.
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Actually with exception of the morning after pill, all contraception is taken beforehand.
There are ofcourse other reasons for abortions that have been skimmed over in this thread.
One might be the long term health of the baby.
In Netherlands babies born naturally before 25 weeks are not given intensive care. This is because the chances of them surviving without some form of mental or physical problem is extremely high.
It could be that if parents are told their unborn baby is going to face a lifetime of severe problems then they elect to have the offered abortion. Remember please what we have mentioned about the mental aspect of this on the mother as well as the father.
Abortion is never a simple act for anyone concerned.
Let the personal attacks go, I am not interested in them and I am sorry if you took my statements as a personal attack, I certianly didn't mean them that way.Let me just get this straight. I don't like abortion.
Therefore I look for reasons to avoid it. Since you think I talk out of both sides of my mouth I should tell you what I think you do.
I think you are selfish, don't really have a lot of respect for women, and don't want to take responsibility for anything.
How is that for straight talk?
See I can only control what I do. I don't control what women or anyone else does. That is why I have always tried to avoid having any child aborted. And thankfully I have never had to face having one of mine aborted. I just don't think your put the blame on the women while I do as I please will save many babies. If you hate abortion so much grow up and do all you can to prevent the need.
I am tired of this childish conversion. It is plain to see that you just don't care enough to man up and stop playing the blame her game.
And since you see a baby as punishment, it is best you don't ever have any. They are a blessing.
We tell people what to do all the time it is called law.
I don't see a baby as punishment that was rhetorical language.
I am doing this back and forth between man and woman in the hopes that people will see the double standard.
I absolutly think it is equally shared responsability of both parties.
I was debating from a different angle I guess it didn't work well
That is fine with me. As for personal attacks, they never work well with me. And I did feel you were getting a nasty attitude. So I decided to play it your way.
I am glad we have this cleared up. Maybe one day we will be on the same side of a discussion.
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