The Universal Whaling Issue

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
"We need another and wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals. Remote from universal nature, and living by complicated artifice, man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken a form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with extension of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth."
- Henry Beston, The Outermost House (1928)

Tremendous passage, thanks for sharing. Will have to check that out some time.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
I think that animals should certainly have rights; and it must be acknowledged that many states have laws that govern the care and treatment of animals. In this the law both confers rights and imposes duties. Ethically, if you consider whether or not animals should have rights, it would be difficult to justify our assertion of such mastery over them.

One of my favorite books about the natural world is by Henry Beston, who, I think, may have come closest to the truth about man and his place among the animal kingdom when he wrote:

"We need another and wiser and perhaps a more mystical concept of animals. Remote from universal nature, and living by complicated artifice, man in civilization surveys the creature through the glass of his knowledge and sees thereby a feather magnified and the whole image in distortion. We patronize them for their incompleteness, for their tragic fate of having taken a form so far below ourselves. And therein we err, and greatly err. For the animal shall not be measured by man. In a world older and more complete than ours, they move finished and complete, gifted with extension of the senses we have lost or never attained, living by voices we shall never hear. They are not brethren; they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners of the splendor and travail of the earth."
- Henry Beston, The Outermost House (1928)
How can an animal have a right?
 
Feb 2012
536
6
England
By eating flesh you are condoning it's being killed.
Not at all. I eat as little as possible so as not to cause offence and eat it from politness sake. My family do not offer meat dishes.We are talking about eating a meal with a casual friend.
I do not like drawing attention to myself so would not be one of those people who throws their hands up in horror and declares they "cannot eat THAT!"
 
Jun 2012
740
8
Stuart
Hunting for sport indicates it is not strictly necessary. Its like tracking a deer or chasing a fox.Exciting at the time, satisfaction of killing an animal if you can gain satisfaction from that, but its not sport to me. If you killed the deer with bare hands then its equal but these days hunters have rifles, often with telescopic sites.

Yet in the past they had crossbow and bows. Yet when the rifle was introduced it made it easier to catch their food. I personally like to hunt though I have not done so in a few years I like being able to bring home food it is a good feeling. It also prepares you for the end of the World when most of us will not be here so those of that are after 12/21/12 :eek: you may need our assistance:p.
 
Feb 2012
536
6
England
Yet in the past they had crossbow and bows. Yet when the rifle was introduced it made it easier to catch their food. I personally like to hunt though I have not done so in a few years I like being able to bring home food it is a good feeling. It also prepares you for the end of the World when most of us will not be here so those of that are after 12/21/12 :eek: you may need our assistance:p.

You realize you can bring home food for your table by growing it dont you? Sometimes its a bit of a challenge to get a good crop :)
Thakyou for the offer of feeding me after the end of the world...I will gladly share some potatoes with you ;)
 
Jun 2012
740
8
Stuart
You realize you can bring home food for your table by growing it dont you? Sometimes its a bit of a challenge to get a good crop :)
Thakyou for the offer of feeding me after the end of the world...I will gladly share some potatoes with you ;)
Sounds like a plan:D
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Not at all. I eat as little as possible so as not to cause offence and eat it from politness sake. My family do not offer meat dishes.We are talking about eating a meal with a casual friend.
I do not like drawing attention to myself so would not be one of those people who throws their hands up in horror and declares they "cannot eat THAT!"

You don't have to make a scene to object, you can do it politely, i dated a vegitarian for a few years and she would not eat meat.

Politeness out weighs your objection to killing animals?
 
Feb 2012
536
6
England
You don't have to make a scene to object, you can do it politely, i dated a vegitarian for a few years and she would not eat meat.

Politeness out weighs your objection to killing animals?


Ok, I'm not going to get into a downward spiral of splitting hairs but will simply say that I do not announce my food preferences to people on first meeting or in fact after many meetings more often than not.
If someone provides a meal and I politely say " Sorry, you've gone to alot of trouble but I cant/wont eat it because my preference is vegetarian", I run the risk of embarrassing the host(ess) who will then be obliged to provide something to my taste especially for me.

The original point of this thread was killing WILD animals and not the pros and cons of being a vegetarian.

I disagree with hunting animals full stop whether it be for 'fun'/sport or to put food on a table.
Farming provides ample sources of meat without pursuing a wild creature.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
You realize you can bring home food for your table by growing it dont you? Sometimes its a bit of a challenge to get a good crop :)
Thakyou for the offer of feeding me after the end of the world...I will gladly share some potatoes with you ;)

You cannot get complete protien from only vegetables. There was a vegan couple that was charged with child abuse for depriving their malnurished infant nessacary nutrition.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Ok, I'm not going to get into a downward spiral of splitting hairs but will simply say that I do not announce my food preferences to people on first meeting or in fact after many meetings more often than not.
If someone provides a meal and I politely say " Sorry, you've gone to alot of trouble but I cant/wont eat it because my preference is vegetarian", I run the risk of embarrassing the host(ess) who will then be obliged to provide something to my taste especially for me.

The original point of this thread was killing WILD animals and not the pros and cons of being a vegetarian.

I disagree with hunting animals full stop whether it be for 'fun'/sport or to put food on a table.
Farming provides ample sources of meat without pursuing a wild creature.

What is the difference between killing wild animals and domestic ones
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
You cannot get complete protien from only vegetables. There was a vegan couple that was charged with child abuse for depriving their malnurished infant nessacary nutrition.

You can get enough protein being a vegan or vegetarian. Nuts, beans, etc. are excellent sources of protein. You do not need meat to survive.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
You can get enough protein being a vegan or vegetarian. Nuts, beans, etc. are excellent sources of protein. You do not need meat to survive.

Nuts, beans and so forth are incomplete protiens, flesh is complete protien
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Nuts, beans and so forth are incomplete protiens, flesh is complete protien

There is no such thing as complete protein and incomplete protein. Proteins are made of different amino acids and different proteins have different kinds of amino acids. You can get all you need being a vegetarian too.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
There is no such thing as complete protein and incomplete protein. Proteins are made of different amino acids and different proteins have different kinds of amino acids. You can get all you need being a vegetarian too.

That is true, but you can't just eat kidney beans and get all the protein you need, you have to eat a veriety and quantities that contain enough. It takes more disapline to be healthy and vegitaria/vegan americans don't seem to exersize displine in the consumption of foods, but vegans and vegitarians do, mostly
 
Feb 2012
536
6
England
What is the difference between killing wild animals and domestic ones
It is unnecessary. Farmed animals are raised for slaughter to provide ample meat, even Deer are kept in this way.

Why do you need to kill a wild animal? I'm sure the answer will involve 'sport' ie the satisfaction of stalking or pursuing the victim and the ability to prove to yourself or others the prowess you have with a deadly weapon.

Its a short step from that to killing animals for trophy and hunters have brought some species to the edge of extinction and in some cases, pushed it over.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
That is true, but you can't just eat kidney beans and get all the protein you need, you have to eat a veriety and quantities that contain enough. It takes more disapline to be healthy and vegitaria/vegan americans don't seem to exersize displine in the consumption of foods, but vegans and vegitarians do, mostly

Vegetarian or not, you need discipline to eat healthy either way. Point is eating meat is not a requirement to be healthy or to get what you need to get.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Vegetarian or not, you need discipline to eat healthy either way. Point is eating meat is not a requirement to be healthy or to get what you need to get.

But it dose make it easier to gain proper nutrition and have more variety in your diet. Plus venison, pork, chicken, beef, and fish are tasty nutritious foods, so are nuts though.

I have nothing against vegitarians/vegans, more power to them. But i do not like it when someone trys to make me look like a monster for being a man. If you dont like to hunt, don't hunt. I don't like art musiums, i don't go. But i don't think they should be torn down
 
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