How much is anti-intellectualism holding us back?

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
The public is even today often misinformed on the facts that it has a say in and votes based on. It is an issue of imperfect information, but it is a fairly fixable one if people are willing to think and look at the facts.

Underlying some of that misinformation though, is a much worse beast- anti-intellectualism. That is something that cannot be as easily fixed. It is the rejection of not only the facts (which may or may not be known by the person), but a rejection of the entire way of thought altogether. And I think that is something that is really holding us back. People question science and math, often without understanding how science and math even works. It is extremely illogical and often compliments blind belief in ideology.

What are everyone's thoughts here about it and what could be done to tackle the issue if there is one?
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
The public is even today often misinformed on the facts that it has a say in and votes based on. It is an issue of imperfect information, but it is a fairly fixable one if people are willing to think and look at the facts.

Underlying some of that misinformation though, is a much worse beast- anti-intellectualism. That is something that cannot be as easily fixed. It is the rejection of not only the facts (which may or may not be known by the person), but a rejection of the entire way of thought altogether. And I think that is something that is really holding us back. People question science and math, often without understanding how science and math even works. It is extremely illogical and often compliments blind belief in ideology.

What are everyone's thoughts here about it and what could be done to tackle the issue if there is one?

10k years of history and we've never solved the problem. Sure we've made some headway but every time logic looks to be winning the anti-intellectuals launch an all out attack and we slip into a dark age. The last 1 lasted 800 years. :(
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
10k years of history and we've never solved the problem. Sure we've made some headway but every time logic looks to be winning the anti-intellectuals launch an all out attack and we slip into a dark age. The last 1 lasted 800 years. :(

I'm not so pessimistic- things have gotten better albeit gradually. At worst, they've stagnated (look at evolution polls- an example of stagnation), but I am not sure we have actually moved backwards, at least not much. Anti-intellectualism is still very rampant though- we see it on the Internet and outside it all the time.
 
Aug 2010
211
12
Reynoldsburg, OH
myp, et al,

Well, I want to admit that I enjoy your optimism. The very idea that you think it is getting better (albiet gradually) is evidence - in itself - getting better by at least one person (anyway).

I'm not so pessimistic- things have gotten better albeit gradually. At worst, they've stagnated (look at evolution polls- an example of stagnation), but I am not sure we have actually moved backwards, at least not much. Anti-intellectualism is still very rampant though- we see it on the Internet and outside it all the time.
(COMMENT)

Yes, this is a description of (optimistically): Two steps forward - One step back!

I have been a member of more than two-dozen Discussion Groups over the last decade. Over this time - I've noticed an increase in hostility toward the intellectual approach in discussing topics of a social, religious, and political-military theme.

There seems to be a growing tendency to let emotions charge and alter intelligent discussion. Preconceived notions without rational evaluations appear to polarize the conversation and political leanings, coupled with patriotic ferver, rule the day.

Many find it natural to feel reason is less important than content and oppose logical solution; believing them to have no basis in reality.

Just My Experience,
Respectfully,
R
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
There seems to be a growing tendency to let emotions charge and alter intelligent discussion. Preconceived notions without rational evaluations appear to polarize the conversation and political leanings, coupled with patriotic ferver, rule the day.
I agree. In recent context, the Occupy and Tea Party movements both have sizable groups that behave this way. It is unfortunate.

Many find it natural to feel reason is less important than content and oppose logical solution; believing them to have no basis in reality.

They seem to think science is almost a conspiracy theory in my experience. They think that the scientists are bought out and they come to these conclusions without understanding that real scientists fundamentally think in a different way than the general layperson.
 

MPR

Mar 2012
44
0
Michigan
Anti-intellectualism definitely holds us back. Whenever there is a notion that intellectual discourse is haughty or elitist then there is, almost by definition, a holding back of society. Society cannot advance without proper communication and understanding; it cannot advance if reason is tossed to the side in favor of emotions; it cannot advance if the popular notion of individual truths erodes the concepts of facts, knowledge, and authority.

It is easy to see anti-intellectualism through mediums like the internet. Grammar is a lost art in online posting; some people go as far as derision towards those who know that “they’re,” “there,” and “their” are different words; that “noone” doesn’t exist; that “close proximity” is redundant. It is readily apparent that people prefer to live in willful ignorance that to spend a little time educating themselves. Arguments online are rarely based on logic, and when logic is used it is usually dismissed as boring, irrelevant, too wordy, or pompous. Even the media has become lax with the proliferation of online articles, often times favoring opinion and commentary over news (many times even presenting it as news instead of editorial). Overall, but especially online, there is a trend toward a democratic notion of facts; if enough people believe it then a sheer majority can overrule scientific research, hard data, and the theories of experts.

Anti-intellectualism is a beast, not only because of its common form, but also because of the many guises it wears. If you read published articles referring to anti-intellectualism they most often have a bias and label all other opinions as anti-intellectual. Typically they state their case without sound logic, often citing “facts” that are misrepresented or not applicable. They declare themselves correct thus discourse is not allowed and those not “open” to their point of view are closed-minded and anti-intellectual. This behavior goes against free thought and rational argument; it seeks to close intellectual debate and thus is a form of anti-intellectualism.

Anti-intellectualism hides itself in politics where ideology is often substituted for intellect. It hides itself in academia where agendas are often a replacement for critical thinking. The problem with these two areas of society is that the same politicians, the same scholars, exhibit characteristics of both intellectualism and anti-intellectualism. They are typically intelligent people who believe in their reasoning and have, over the course of a career, defended their logic to such a degree that they are no longer open to new ideas or new points of view, however valid. This form of anti-intellectualism actually feeds into the common form because it can often lead to a perception that educators and politicians are pompous, agenda driven, and out-of-touch with the real world.

I think that too many people define themselves by an ideology, be it political, religious, or anything else. They tie who they are to this notion of truth, and thus take criticism of ideas as a personal attack instead of intellectual discourse. They are typically entrenched in their thinking and are unwilling to change. They don’t want to follow through on reason to determine the underlying assumptions of their position, opting instead to use pseudo-logic and generalizations to defend their point of view. In these instances contradictions need to be overlooked or rationalized which leads to a lot of our society’s current anti-intellectual behavior.
 

myp

Jan 2009
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50
Wow, that was tremendous MPR. It is almost like you got those words from my head. :p
 
Jun 2012
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0
I think that the general public is only looking at the first paragraph and/or headline of topics they read. They in turn gather their thoughts and feelings from this very limited view and go off from there.

The occupy wall street people were greatly disjointed and offered in no way a reason to be there. The great majority of the people there were this generations hippies and came together to party and just be annoying. For those few that came together in the hope to change the system, they were drowned out by the nuts and attention whores.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
There is no real fact, only iturpritation of evidence. If most people interpret evidence similarly or use a similar logic then there is agreement. Being that logic is subjective it isn't possable to prove much with it
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
There is no real fact, only iturpritation of evidence. If most people interpret evidence similarly or use a similar logic then there is agreement. Being that logic is subjective it isn't possable to prove much with it

Not really true. You are an example of what I am talking about given our discussions on this forum. You think you understand science, but you often misunderstand and mischaracterize it and as a result misinterpret it. This is not meant as an insult of any sort, but just an observation. I encourage you to learn more about the process, thought, and methodologies of science before you dismiss it altogether.
 
Jul 2012
17
0
Wherever the world takes me
I think that a much larger problem than anti-intellectualism is the simple lack of any reason to become educated upon political issues. You get nothing other than a vague sense of pride which can be gained by anyone who turns on the news or listens to a partisan radio show for five minutes.
At the same time the fact is that there's really no clear cut answer to any political problem. Even those who have studied issues for their entire lives come to different conclusions on a regular basis (see the divide between liberal and conservative professors). For this reason even those who ardently follow intellectuals come to different conclusions, the only difference being that at least they're more likely to have some idea of what theyre talking about.
With all this being said I think that a disregard for any sort of intellectual rigor is also a large problem. Even if one is dedicated to understanding the issue, they often have no sense of a larger worldview or ideology, just a mismatch of facts and presuppositions that they mash together to more or less create something that sounds at least plausible. Even those who are ready to accept the words of intellectuals are somewhat unlikely to really be ready to invest the time and energy to make a coherent worldview in which they have actually examined much of whatever they spit out.
At any rate, to stop rambling and get back to the topic, anti-intellectualism is gaining ground in America, as I think can be testified to by parts (although certainly not all) of the Tea Party. It's not really as disastrous as some might think because the fact is that the masses have never been all that dependent upon the word of intellectuals, and much of the time when they have been it has lead to disaster (I.E Vietnam). Nonetheless it poses a definite danger and, at very least, it means nothing good for anyone except those who like to feel smart and self-righteous without knowing what they're talking about.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Not really true. You are an example of what I am talking about given our discussions on this forum. You think you understand science, but you often misunderstand and mischaracterize it and as a result misinterpret it. This is not meant as an insult of any sort, but just an observation. I encourage you to learn more about the process, thought, and methodologies of science before you dismiss it altogether.

You think your inturpritation is the only right one.

I don't dismiss science. I question the motives of the scientist. Because he is an irrational human being and his conclusions are susceptible to flaw.

I encorage you to gain a deeper understanding of man kind.

I do not take offence.

If something is a fact there can't be any doubts, very few things are that.way
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
If something is a fact there can't be any doubts, very few things are that.way

No one is suggesting that, but there is a proper way to disprove things and to look at things objectively. You do not often look at things objectively or give nearly enough weight to empiricism and statistics as evidenced by our discussions on monetary policy and economics in the past. And that is not your fault if you've never learned it, but it is unfair for you to criticize strong studies on the basis of you not understanding methodologies.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
No one is suggesting that, but there is a proper way to disprove things and to look at things objectively. You do not often look at things objectively or give nearly enough weight to empiricism and statistics as evidenced by our discussions on monetary policy and economics in the past. And that is not your fault if you've never learned it, but it is unfair for you to criticize strong studies on the basis of you not understanding methodologies.
There is no way to look at tngs objectively, because people aren't objective. Science is a product of people.

You have apparently never encountered a scientist who is biased, or you agree with their bias.

The academic world today is the same as the Roman catholic church in the 13rd century.

I have encountered the inquiscion, and it is quite ugly.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
There is no way to look at tngs objectively, because people aren't objective. Science is a product of people.

People CAN look at things objectively. They might have preconceived opinions, but people can get past that or point them out and people practicing real science do it all the time. How much experience do you have reading scientific journals? You will note that in practically every single peer-reviewed article there is a discussion by the authors about their shortcomings, possible issues with the conclusions, possible future experiments, etc. In addition, the mere fact that respectable journals are peer-reviewed, says something (it is another way to eliminate bias and let reason and science prevail).

You have apparently never encountered a scientist who is biased, or you agree with their bias.
A scientist who lets his bias dictate his results (or even have any role in affecting the results) is not a scientist. He is not actually practicing science. What you just said is an oxymoron.

The academic world today is the same as the Roman catholic church in the 13rd century.
It really isn't. And the track record is there to prove it. The great leaps in technology, understanding of the world, etc. If they were just making everything up you would never have had so many of these advances and on top of that the ability for someone who is not in the field to go look something up, apply it, and then see it work as part of a complex system. Sure scientists get things wrong sometimes if they misinterpret the data, but that is a part of science and it allows what we know to evolve.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
People CAN look at things objectively. They might have preconceived opinions, but people can get past that or point them out and people practicing real science do it all the time. How much experience do you have reading scientific journals? You will note that in practically every single peer-reviewed article there is a discussion by the authors about their shortcomings, possible issues with the conclusions, possible future experiments, etc. In addition, the mere fact that respectable journals are peer-reviewed, says something (it is another way to eliminate bias and let reason and science prevail).


A scientist who lets his bias dictate his results (or even have any role in affecting the results) is not a scientist. He is not actually practicing science. What you just said is an oxymoron.


It really isn't. And the track record is there to prove it. The great leaps in technology, understanding of the world, etc. If they were just making everything up you would never have had so many of these advances and on top of that the ability for someone who is not in the field to go look something up, apply it, and then see it work as part of a complex system. Sure scientists get things wrong sometimes if they misinterpret the data, but that is a part of science and it allows what we know to evolve.
That is all through your rose colored glasses. You precive it therefor it is so.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
People CAN look at things objectively. They might have preconceived opinions, but people can get past that or point them out and people practicing real science do it all the time. How much experience do you have reading scientific journals? You will note that in practically every single peer-reviewed article there is a discussion by the authors about their shortcomings, possible issues with the conclusions, possible future experiments, etc. In addition, the mere fact that respectable journals are peer-reviewed, says something (it is another way to eliminate bias and let reason and science prevail).


A scientist who lets his bias dictate his results (or even have any role in affecting the results) is not a scientist. He is not actually practicing science. What you just said is an oxymoron.


It really isn't. And the track record is there to prove it. The great leaps in technology, understanding of the world, etc. If they were just making everything up you would never have had so many of these advances and on top of that the ability for someone who is not in the field to go look something up, apply it, and then see it work as part of a complex system. Sure scientists get things wrong sometimes if they misinterpret the data, but that is a part of science and it allows what we know to evolve.
you haven't been disillusioned by the academic world, where its only about how much money you spend or borrow. When that time comes I hope you are not in as much denial as you currently are in.

A smart man knows many things, a wise man, realizes he knows nothing.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
That is all through your rose colored glasses. You precive it therefor it is so.

Yea not really. And I know I am right. Human progress says I am right. And anyone who matters and has actually taken the time to do the research knows I am right. You are a great example of what my point in this thread was :p
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
you haven't been disillusioned by the academic world, where its only about how much money you spend or borrow. When that time comes I hope you are not in as much denial as you currently are in.

A smart man knows many things, a wise man, realizes he knows nothing.

I'll rather side with the likes of Einstein, Feynman, Pauling, Tesla, etc. any day over anyone who is as close-minded as you.
 
Jan 2012
1,975
5
Texas
Yea not really. And I know I am right. Human progress says I am right. And anyone who matters and has actually taken the time to do the research knows I am right. You are a great example of what my point in this thread was :p

The arrogant delight in their arrogance. The fact that you think people don't matter proves my point. Thanks for being so predictable.
 
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