Convince me to vote one way or the other on the Presidential race

[myp]

I plan on probably not voting for either. My state will be going for Obama. I don't like either candidate and am voting more to vote on the other issues on our ballot.

 

[tecoyah]

4 Yrs ago we almost failed as a country...today we are hurting, but it is no longer a question.
4 yrs ago millions felt the healthcare industry had nothing for them, knew they were going to an emergency room (On My Dime), and were totally screwed if they had Cancer, Diabetes....or anything the insurance companies decided was not covered.
4 yrs ago we spent so damn much money on wasted wars that never accomplished a goal, and managed somehow...to not only GTFO when we could, but actually took out the worst of the bastards that made us go to war in the first place.
And, we did it without letting any of our own die.
4 yrs ago an industry that not only represents power in America, but provided an absolutely huge stimulus to our economy just by existing was dying a quick death...today it is one of the worldwide powerhouses in production.
4 yrs ago......women had rights they deserve, but still were not equal.

4 yrs from now...........what do you think?

 

[myp]

Everything does not happen in 4 year bubbles, I'll start with that- I think it is one of the shortcomings of modern Presidential politics to assume such especially when trying to buy votes from an unknowing public.

Now for the bulk- healthcare- I don't think the reform was the way to go still. It doesn't solve the major cost issues associated with healthcare. How it turns out is still yet to be seen as states and firms take legal action (especially after the SCOTUS medicare ruling).


Wars- I don't agree with the wars and we've done an okay job there, but maybe could have left earlier. I don't know enough about this issue to give a hardline defense, but I'll give Obama the win here. Although I think Romney might have looked to start pulling out as well- my bigger concerns with him would have been what would happen with Iran.

Is the industry you are talking about the auto industry? Romney was for a structured bankruptcy through government- essentially what ended up happening anyway. We really need to cut the moral hazard between that industry and the Federal government though and next time if they fail, they fail. Toyota, Honda, etc. all have plants here too- being an "American" company is often very misleading- Cars.com does a yearly list of the most American made car as determined by how much of the actual car (including parts, etc.) is made in the US- last I checked the Camry has led for quite a bit because GM uses a lot of parts from China. That aside, importing certain goods isn't bad either- both candidates are way too harsh on China for no justifiable reason other than to get votes from other people who don't understand trade.

Women's rights- I'm all for them, but I don't see Romney exactly destroying them either.

 

[tecoyah]

Everything does not happen in 4 year bubbles, I'll start with that- I think it is one of the shortcomings of modern Presidential politics to assume such especially when trying to buy votes from an unknowing public.


No, they do not. However, we not only have the last four years to go by in this debate (as far as Obama is concerned), but they were a far from typical 4 yrs. As far as buying votes...it is the current system.

Now for the bulk- healthcare- I don't think the reform was the way to go still. It doesn't solve the major cost issues associated with healthcare. How it turns out is still yet to be seen as states and firms take legal action (especially after the SCOTUS medicare ruling).

Fair enough...but look at it from the shoes of others.

Wars- I don't agree with the wars and we've done an okay job there, but maybe could have left earlier. I don't know enough about this issue to give a hardline defense, but I'll give Obama the win here. Although I think Romney might have looked to start pulling out as well- my bigger concerns with him would have been what would happen with Iran.

Agreed...but I do not know how we could have left sooner.

Is the industry you are talking about the auto industry? Romney was for a structured bankruptcy through government- essentially what ended up happening anyway. We really need to cut the moral hazard between that industry and the Federal government though and next time if they fail, they fail. Toyota, Honda, etc. all have plants here too- being an "American" company is often very misleading- Cars.com does a yearly list of the most American made car as determined by how much of the actual car (including parts, etc.) is made in the US- last I checked the Camry has led for quite a bit because GM uses a lot of parts from China. That aside, importing certain goods isn't bad either- both candidates are way too harsh on China for no justifiable reason other than to get votes from other people who don't understand trade.

Yes, the auto industry, as well as the banks. However, Romney apparently wanted to go through traditional bankruptcy and private capital....which did not exist, and in fact opposed Gov't involvement...to my understanding.

Women's rights- I'm all for them, but I don't see Romney exactly destroying them either.

Romney and Co. have specifically stated they would do so...added to this would be the likely hood, of POTUS choices that may very well destroy RvW.

 

[myp]

Fair enough...but look at it from the shoes of others.

At the end of the day systemic outcomes (which includes the outcomes of those worst off) is what matters.

Yes, the auto industry, as well as the banks. However, Romney apparently wanted to go through traditional bankruptcy and private capital....which did not exist, and in fact opposed Gov't involvement...to my understanding.

I guess his plan is fuzzy - in one of the debates he said he was for a structured bankruptcy but I could see him saying otherwise elsewhere, especially in primaries. I think given the pressure of the office though, when push came to shove we would've seen something similar.

Romney and Co. have specifically stated they would do so...added to this would be the likely hood, of POTUS choices that may very well destroy RvW.

They stated they would take down which rights specifically other than Roe v. Wade?

 

[tecoyah]

At the end of the day systemic outcomes (which includes the outcomes of those worst off) is what matters.

How do you suggest we improve the outcomes?

I guess his plan is fuzzy - in one of the debates he said he was for a structured bankruptcy but I could see him saying otherwise elsewhere, especially in primaries. I think given the pressure of the office though, when push came to shove we would've seen something similar.

I see...so somehow his inability to clarify in some way rescinds the initial statement?

They stated they would take down which rights specifically other than Roe v. Wade?

Yes...birth control for one.

I fail to see how a party pushing for smaller Gov't can focus on regulating half the folks in the country because they have no penis.

 

[myp]

Yes...birth control for one.

I fail to see how a party pushing for smaller Gov't can focus on regulating half the folks in the country because they have no penis.

Birth control isn't going anywhere no matter how hard anyone might try.

 

[tecoyah]

Because....we will not allow it.

Thus....we vote

 

[Dirk]

You make it sound like there are two ways, but what about the others?

Here are some of them:

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Third-Party-Presidential-Debate/10737435220/

 

[myp]

You make it sound like there are two ways, but what about the others?

Here are some of them:

http://www.c-span.org/Events/Third-Party-Presidential-Debate/10737435220/

I've looked at the others and they don't really appeal to me either.

edit: correction; I've look at the other two on the Maryland ballot (Stein and Johnson) and they don't appeal to me.

 

[Dirk]

I've looked at the others and they don't really appeal to me either.

Obviously, I preferred the two you expect in that debate, but Gary Johnson seemed pretty great on the social liberty side. I was quite impressed.

Also, this is the first US election that I've taken significant interest in.

 

[tecoyah]

I actually feel I know the third party platforms...might even have gone Green,

But, I want to impact if I can the future of our country. I see my vote as even less useful wishing for something that cannot possible happen, than hoping the worst does not take place.

 

[Dirk]

I actually feel I know the third party platforms...might even have gone Green,

But, I want to impact if I can the future of our country. I see my vote as even less useful wishing for something that cannot possible happen, than hoping the worst does not take place.

A vote for the Greens is worthless only because the two parties of plutocracy dominate the country and the voting system is manipulated in their favour. Indeed, a Third Party vote is, at best, a protest vote.