The Civil War: Democracy in Action,or What?

[falcondule]

Those who claim to love the constitution and claim that it must be read and understood word for word always seem to neglect the events which led to the bloodiest war in american history;the civil war.

if the constitution -and i think it has some great ideas- represented man's best hope for the future ,why did it fail so miserable in the past?

one would think that such a great document espousing such great idealism and being the great template for putting together a great and exceptional society ,would've found a way to avert such a slaughter involving one american killing another. so what gives?

 

[tecoyah]

Those who claim to love the constitution and claim that it must be read and understood word for word always seem to neglect the events which led to the bloodiest war in american history;the civil war.

if the constitution -and i think it has some great ideas- represented man's best hope for the future ,why did it fail so miserable in the past?

one would think that such a great document espousing such great idealism and being the great template for putting together a great and exceptional society ,would've found a way to avert such a slaughter involving one american killing another. so what gives?

All men created equal.....thus the civil war.

 

[falcondule]

do you find equality in nature. Isn't man part of nature?

if equality can't be guaranteed in nature can government?

 

[tecoyah]

do you find equality in nature. Isn't man part of nature?

if equality can't be guaranteed in nature can government?

I see....so advancement of the species through intellect is not an evolution?

thank you for presenting an example of my point.

 

[falcondule]

O.K. but i really don't know what your point IS!!!

 

[tecoyah]

exactly

 

[Iolo]

It is difficult to see how two totally different economic systems can co-exist under the same government. The positions held by many of the Founding Father's were full of contradictions between the Enlightenment ideas they felt they ought to hold and the evil and archaic way they got their money and power. Just like the racism that is so widespread (and denied) in right-wing America now, the enslavement of human beings was deeply offensive to the rest of the world (two of my wife's Chartist forebears went over there to fight the slavers, and they weren't untypical). You can have any constitution you choose - progress arises out of the contradictions any system attempts hopelessly to embody.

 

[Road Warrior]

I see....so advancement of the species through intellect is not an evolution?

thank you for presenting an example of my point.

It is evolution. OTOH, not all people are equally intelligent....nor attractive, skilled, wealthy, yada, yada, yada.

It's not our government's job to make them all equal in these traits, but it is our governments job to make sure we are all treated equally under the law regardless of intellect, wealth, celebrity, skills, etc.

 

[rgf]

I guess when a certain segment of a society believes it is their right, not to mention God's will, to own other human beings that is a road to certain conflict. The tragedy is that a small group of hot headed rich guys talked the south into a war that for all practicable purpose they had no chance of winning just to protect their way of life.

 

[Iolo]

I guess when a certain segment of a society believes it is their right, not to mention God's will, to own other human beings that is a road to certain conflict. The tragedy is that a small group of hot headed rich guys talked the south into a war that for all practicable purpose they had no chance of winning just to protect their way of life.

The way of life of a tiny minority, of course. Aren't people mugs!

 

[falcondule]

Many historians believe ,myself included ,that the civil war was something of a gateway war for the usa. With the defeat of the south authoritarian rule on american soil ended. In few words ,historians believe that if the south had won or if the war itself had been averted the usa congress would've been more amenable to regimes such as the Kaiser's rule in germany and or the reich during the 30s.
and so would've been more inclined to reach accomodation with them...

 

[tecoyah]

Had Hitler grown up in an Australian colony, historians believe (myself included), that Germany would have avoided the idea of aggressive expansion and there would have been no WWII.

 

[falcondule]

irrelevant, hypothetical ,hearsay ;to be stricken from the record.

 

[David]

Many historians believe ,myself included ,that the civil war was something of a gateway war for the usa. With the defeat of the south authoritarian rule on american soil ended. In few words ,historians believe that if the south had won or if the war itself had been averted the usa congress would've been more amenable to regimes such as the Kaiser's rule in germany and or the reich during the 30s.
and so would've been more inclined to reach accomodation with them...

End of authoritarian rule? We suffered a decades long junta because of that war.