Islamism

myp · Jun 25, 2012

Jack Fate said:
Islam is much more than just "a religion". It is also a culture and governing doctrine. Sharia Law is the law of the land in Iran.

But such law systems are not advocated by all followers of Islam, which is why they should be treated separately. There are people who want law systems based on Christianity, but not all Christians believe in such law systems. They are two separate groups and should be treated as such.

Jack Fate · Jun 25, 2012

myp said:
But such law systems are not advocated by all followers of Islam, which is why they should be treated separately. There are people who want law systems based on Christianity, but not all Christians believe in such law systems. They are two separate groups and should be treated as such.

Iran is a nation governed by Islam and Islamist clerics. What nation is governed by a Christian pastor and uses Christian law from the bible?

myp · Jun 25, 2012

Jack Fate said:
Iran is a nation governed by Islam and Islamist clerics. What nation is governed by a Christian pastor and uses Christian law from the bible?

That is irrelevant. You are doing injustice to those who are Muslim but do not believe in Islamic government by denouncing their entire religion based on one particular group within the religion.

Again, I can do the same with Christianity but it is unfair to do so. And currently the Vatican is one place that is governed by Christian law, I am not sure if there are others although historically there have been.

Jack Fate · Jun 25, 2012

myp said:
That is irrelevant. You are doing injustice to those who are Muslim but do not believe in Islamic government by denouncing their entire religion based on one particular group within the religion.

Again, I can do the same with Christianity but it is unfair to do so. And currently the Vatican is one place that is governed by Christian law, I am not sure if there are others although historically there have been.

No, it is not irrlevant. You are the one who brought Christianity up. I'm not doing injustice to anyone. I stated Iran is a nation with a govt run by Islamic clerics and Sharia Law. If you can't name a nation run by Christian pastors and biblical laws, then your point is the one that is irrelevant.

The Quran states Mohammed saying "Do not make friends with Christians and Jews". That is an evil religion and that is why Iran is an evil nation that supports terrorism and funds terrorism.

myp · Jun 25, 2012

Jack Fate said:
No, it is not irrlevant. You are the one who brought Christianity up. I'm not doing injustice to anyone. I stated Iran is a nation with a govt run by Islamic clerics and Sharia Law. If you can't name a nation run by Christian pastors and biblical laws, then your point is the one that is irrelevant.

In the post I originally responded to you said "Islam is fascist". Which I am saying is false because such stereotyping is false. I don't need to produce a Christian equivalent to show you that stereotyping is logically fallacious. If you really need one look to the Holy Roman Empire.

And evil is subjective. I refuse to stereotype and call all of Islam evil or to call all Islamic people evil. That is just foolish.

Jack Fate · Jun 25, 2012

myp said:
In the post I originally responded to you said "Islam is fascist". Which I am saying is false because such stereotyping is false. I don't need to produce a Christian equivalent to show you that stereotyping is logically fallacious. If you really need one look to the Holy Roman Empire.

And evil is subjective. I refuse to stereotype and call all of Islam evil or to call all Islamic people evil. That is just foolish.

I can call Islam evil because I believe it is. Iran is a nation under Sharia Law and run by Islamist clerics that support and fund terrorism. Is this evil?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aV9M3mmqOII

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdWV02Szb5k&feature=fvwrel

myp · Jun 25, 2012

Evil does not objectively mean anything. I am sure some Muslim people would call you evil for stereotyping (some non-Muslims might too).

Also why do you keep stereotyping?! Do you seriously think that if a group within a group believes something that everyone supports it?

Jack Fate · Jun 25, 2012

myp said:
Evil does not objectively mean anything. I am sure some Muslim people would call you evil for stereotyping (some non-Muslims might too).

Also why do you keep stereotyping?! Do you seriously think that if a group within a group believes something that everyone supports it?

I believe those videos are pure evil. Iran produces those videos. That is why I believe Iran is an evil nation. It is run by Islamist clerics. Evil people. What other people believe and do has nothing to do with anything.

myp · Jun 25, 2012

Jack Fate said:
I believe those videos are pure evil. Iran produces those videos. That is why I believe Iran is an evil nation. It is run by Islamist clerics. Evil people. What other people believe and do has nothing to do with anything.

Now you are saying Iran is evil. Did you mean Iran was evil before or did you mean what you said when you said Islam was evil? Two very different things. Depending on how you define Iran I may or may not agree, but at the end of the day, evil is subjective.

And other examples absolutely matter. Stereotyping is logically fallacious. It was the basis for sexism, for racism, for so many counts of hatred and injustice, and yet you don't answer the question of why you are stereotyping. If you can't stop and have a logical discussion, then you and I have nothing to discuss.

David · Jun 25, 2012

So, Jack, trying to cover up your fascist claim with all this evil BS? Nice try, I'm still waiting for an example of fascism in the Iranian gov't.

Jack Fate · Jun 26, 2012

myp said:
Now you are saying Iran is evil. Did you mean Iran was evil before or did you mean what you said when you said Islam was evil? Two very different things. Depending on how you define Iran I may or may not agree, but at the end of the day, evil is subjective.

And other examples absolutely matter. Stereotyping is logically fallacious. It was the basis for sexism, for racism, for so many counts of hatred and injustice, and yet you don't answer the question of why you are stereotyping. If you can't stop and have a logical discussion, then you and I have nothing to discuss.

Let's take is step by step. Do you believe those videos are evil?

Jack Fate · Jun 26, 2012

David said:
So, Jack, trying to cover up your fascist claim with all this evil BS? Nice try, I'm still waiting for an example of fascism in the Iranian gov't.

Iran is an evil fascist state. I don't need your agreement to vailidate my opinion and the opinion of millions of other people.

David · Jun 26, 2012

Jack Fate said:
Iran is an evil fascist state. I don't need your agreement to vailidate my opinion and the opinion of millions of other people.

So you base your argument on 'because I say so'? What an idiot.

myp · Jun 26, 2012

Jack Fate said:
Let's take is step by step. Do you believe those videos are evil?

Let's not. Because the Iranian government is not synonymous with Islam. And until you admit Islam is not the same as all people who believe in Islam which is not the same as a country government by Islamic people, we have nothing to discuss. Can you admit that?

Jack Fate · Jun 26, 2012

David said:
So you base your argument on 'because I say so'? What an idiot.

I said millions of people. I didn't say "because I said so", you did.
Then you call me a name. Is this standard conduct around here? If it is, then I'll be leaving.

Jack Fate · Jun 26, 2012

myp said:
Let's not. Because the Iranian government is not synonymous with Islam. And until you admit Islam is not the same as all people who believe in Islam which is not the same as a country government by Islamic people, we have nothing to discuss. Can you admit that?

Those videos are produced by the govt of Iran. Why can't you look at them and give an opinion?

myp · Jun 26, 2012

Jack Fate said:
Those videos are produced by the govt of Iran. Why can't you look at them and give an opinion?

Because I am not refuting your points on the government of Iran (although I do not necessarily agree with them either). What I am refuting is your position on the religion of Islam and people who follow Islam. In tying them together with the beliefs of the leaders of Iran, you are producing a misrepresentation.

Jack Fate · Jun 26, 2012

myp said:
Because I am not refuting your points on the government of Iran (although I do not necessarily agree with them either). What I am refuting is your position on the religion of Islam and people who follow Islam. In tying them together with the beliefs of the leaders of Iran, you are producing a misrepresentation.

Those videos are produced by the Iranian govt. Please look at them and give me your opinion about what they are teaching children. Thanks.

myp · Jun 26, 2012

Jack Fate said:
Those videos are produced by the Iranian govt. Please look at them and give me your opinion about what they are teaching children. Thanks.

No. I know the Iranian government has done some things that I do not agree with. I don't need to watch the video. But if you seriously think that what the Iranian government does reflects the religion in its entirety you are just stereotyping. That is like someone saying the Ku Klux Klan is a group of white people that targets, kills, abuses, whatever non-white people so all white people are like that. That is seriously a distorted and demented way to think.

Jack Fate · Jun 26, 2012

myp said:
No. I know the Iranian government has done some things that I do not agree with. I don't need to watch the video. But if you seriously think that what the Iranian government does reflects the religion in its entirety you are just stereotyping. That is like someone saying the Ku Klux Klan is a group of white people that targets, kills, abuses, whatever non-white people so all white people are like that. That is seriously a distorted and demented way to think.

The Iranian govt is run by Islamist clerics with an Islamist cleric as the Supreme Leader. An Islamist totalitarian state, yet you want me to believe that these men do not represent Islam. Fascinating.

Islamism

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