Muslims and Free Speech

Dec 2012
677
13
Florida
I really think the correct term for what you're talking about is "fiqh" not "sharia."



I don't see how that relates. That is an instance of American common law, not sharia/fiqh.




I am afraid I don't have time to check that link out at the moment, and I admit to some trepidation about doing it at all. It seems like a reactionary, alarmist site just from the name.

I don't see any good cause to be alarmed about the Islamic religion, it is a beautiful religion of peace. I don't have much respect for anybody who would suggest the contrary, especially anybody who would do so without a thorough understanding of Islam. A thorough understanding of Islam includes understanding the difference between sharia and fiqh.

Sounds to me like you're the one who is not understanding, and bya wide margin. Religion of peace ? LOL. Islam is neither a religion nor is it peaceful. It is an ideology (masquerading as a religion) which has cold-blooded murdered a mind boggling 270 million people, around the world over the past 400 years, and its murderous ways continue in the present day.

As for the New Jersey case, yes, it was Sharia law that the dopey judge adjusted himself to, and one of the most common applications of it. As for the Center for Security Policy, it is composed of an all-star case of US Homeland security experts, and it it would you well to read the link, as well as their book Shariah: the Threat to America. What I don't have respect for are people who make judgements on things without examining them, just because their Islamist masters advised them not to.
 
Dec 2012
677
13
Florida
Again you are wrong in the meaning. You are picking a meaning that is what modern day Extremist say it means. The true meaning is as I said it.

I am far from a muslim mouth piece. You talk like a racist bigoted person who does not allow anyone to believe something unless it falls in line with what you believe.

You did exactly that you cherry picked those scripture from the koran to fit your meaning like many people do. So what you are telling me is that you know how these Muslims are taught and this is what they are told those scriptures mean. What idiotic question it was simple where does it say to create a jihad? The bible tells Christians to fight also though we are to fight with prayer, worship in God, and being a role model. So you are the Koranic Scholar you are telling me that again this is how all Muslims are taught to slay us. I disagree and know Muslims who would also. Do I personally believe what the muslims believe no I do not I am Christian through and through. Though there beliefs are not mine I do not hate them for what they believe.

Do you know who created the extremist in the Middle East today? DO you know history? I am very well versed in History. The modern day Muslim Extremist was created by the US in 1979. If you don't believe me look it up it is well documented.

Why were they created? They were created to fight the former Soviet Union with a few goals the US were expecting from doing this. The First was they did not want the SU to have anymore of a foot hold in the Middle East then they already had. Second was oil the US was afraid that if the SU did win it could very well disrupt our oil supply. The third was the last reason in committing the SU to Afghanistan as they did they hoped it would drag out and be expense in cost and would eventual cause the collapse of Communism in the Soviet Union which is what it did.

So you are made at a extremist our government created. Do you know why they fought and they still do? It is simple really they warned us that when we entered Saudi Arabia they looked upon it as an invasion. We made promises that we had no plans on staying in the ME yet what did we do. This started well before the current war. We occupied Saudi Arabia during the first Gulf war and never left. The told us if we did not leave they would fight us. We did not leave and they did what they promised. They look at us for what we are an occupying force and they fight thus with that in mind.

Russia learned and stayed out of it and they have not been targeted. If we left the lands they would no longer need to fight us. They fight us for only one reason which is what you fail to grasp. They fight us because they see us as invaders which is exactly what we are.

Tell me if China invaded and occupied us would you sit and let it happen or would you make it difficult for them. I would make it difficult for them this is my homeland not theirs. That is exactly what they are doing though their tactics I find wrong but they achieve what they want by using them.

FALSE, FALSE, and more FALSE.

The meaning of jihad is holy war. "Modern day extremists" ? Not hardly. Was it "modern day extremists" who, under Mohammed's orders, attacked caravans between Mecca and Medina ? Was it modern day extermists who branched out from the Arabian peninsula, and conquered non-Muslim people conquering more land on 3 continents, and people than the Roman empire ?

Was it "modern day extremists" who killed 270 million people around the world over the past 1400 years ? Your statements are absurd and couldn't be easier to refute. The 1400 year historical record speaks for itself.

When Muslims invaded Asia, north Africa, and southern Europe in the 477 years before the beginning of the Crusades, they had not been invaded. They WERE the invaders, taking their commands from Mohammed and the Koran.

And today's terrorists are not 1400 years old. They did not create the Koran. The Koran created them.

Purists like bin Laden see the attainment of a worldwide caliphate as the reward for following the Koran and Allah's will and drawing closer to him and his favor. They believe that the corruption of Muslim "values" and spiritual integrity has cost them Allah's favor, which lead to the decline of the caliphate that once ruled the world, from the Atlantic to the Indian
Ocean. In an al Qaeda training manual, bib Laden attributed the loss of the caliphate to a malaise in the Muslim world.

"The bitter situation that the nation has reached is a result of its divergence from Allah's course and his righteous law for all places and times. That [situation] came about as a result of its children's love for the world, their loathing of death, and their abandonment of jihad." (al Qaeda training manual, http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/laden.htm.)

Bin Laden, in his "State of Jihad" speech on Al-Jazeera also said: "The Umma and its youth, women, elderly, must offer themselves, their expertise, and all sort of financial support enough to raise jihad in the battlefields of jihad. Jihad today is a duty of every Muslim."

Of course jihad is holy WAR as these remarks attest, but that is only one part of jihad. There is also the ever-present non-violent jihad led by the Muslim Brotherhood and their hundreds of front groups, who step by step are Islamizing the West with their stealth jihad (AKA Islamization) in hundreds of ways, with the same goal >> to destroy Western Civilization and erect an Islamic state (caliphate) in its place.

"The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadist" process with all that the word means. The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood in North America] must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" their miserable house by their hands, and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated, and Allah's religion is made victorious over all religions."

Mohamed Akram, "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America" May 22, 1991, Government Exhibit 003-0085, United States vs. Holy Land Foundation, et al.

PS - you didn't answer my question regarding "cherry-picking" and the doctor convicted of murder.
 
Dec 2012
677
13
Florida
Friendly fire my ass, we told Israel the ship was in the area, it was smaller the ship it was 'mistaken' for, it was American flagged, it identified itself, the Israelis who attacked asked for confirmation of their orders as they knew it was an American ship and the USS Liberty continued to identify itself after the attack started. It was an intentional act of war to keep the US from knowing about it's actions in Egypt and we just rolled over and took the shush money because of some idiotic desire to bring about the end days as per Revelations and a bunch of rich Jewish nationalists.

Sorry. I just don't see Israel attacking the USA, and to say so demeans your credibilty in a forum. Oh sure, Netanyahu just can't wait to mount a military attack on the United States. Are you nuts ?
 
Dec 2012
677
13
Florida
protect ;

al baqarah 191
And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.



fitnah : mischief making

The Koran is loaded with hundreds of examples of NON-defensive war that Muslim are obliged to wage, and the historical record shows them having done just that (killing 270 million people) for 1400 years. The 477 years before the first crusade, was pure Muslim aggression, on 3 continents. Nobody was attacking them. No statement could be more easily refuted than the absurdity that you just said.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
3 continents? The beat up on the Romans and the barbarians invading them but everything else was won by their missionaries and merchants. Islam was spread by money far more then the sword.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
3 continents? The beat up on the Romans and the barbarians invading them but everything else was won by their missionaries and merchants. Islam was spread by money far more then the sword.

Very true...gotta love roads of silk
 
Dec 2012
121
5
space
The Koran is loaded with hundreds of examples of NON-defensive war that Muslim are obliged to wage, and the historical record shows them having done just that (killing 270 million people) for 1400 years. The 477 years before the first crusade, was pure Muslim aggression, on 3 continents. Nobody was attacking them. No statement could be more easily refuted than the absurdity that you just said.

no ,you cant show any verse that refers to any war being non defensive
dont lie

people were responsible for those wars ,not quran..
 
Jun 2012
740
8
Stuart
FALSE, FALSE, and more FALSE.

The meaning of jihad is holy war. "Modern day extremists" ? Not hardly. Was it "modern day extremists" who, under Mohammed's orders, attacked caravans between Mecca and Medina ? Was it modern day extermists who branched out from the Arabian peninsula, and conquered non-Muslim people conquering more land on 3 continents, and people than the Roman empire ?

Was it "modern day extremists" who killed 270 million people around the world over the past 1400 years ? Your statements are absurd and couldn't be easier to refute. The 1400 year historical record speaks for itself.

When Muslims invaded Asia, north Africa, and southern Europe in the 477 years before the beginning of the Crusades, they had not been invaded. They WERE the invaders, taking their commands from Mohammed and the Koran.

And today's terrorists are not 1400 years old. They did not create the Koran. The Koran created them.

Purists like bin Laden see the attainment of a worldwide caliphate as the reward for following the Koran and Allah's will and drawing closer to him and his favor. They believe that the corruption of Muslim "values" and spiritual integrity has cost them Allah's favor, which lead to the decline of the caliphate that once ruled the world, from the Atlantic to the Indian
Ocean. In an al Qaeda training manual, bib Laden attributed the loss of the caliphate to a malaise in the Muslim world.

"The bitter situation that the nation has reached is a result of its divergence from Allah's course and his righteous law for all places and times. That [situation] came about as a result of its children's love for the world, their loathing of death, and their abandonment of jihad." (al Qaeda training manual, http://www.fas.org/irp/world/para/laden.htm.)

Bin Laden, in his "State of Jihad" speech on Al-Jazeera also said: "The Umma and its youth, women, elderly, must offer themselves, their expertise, and all sort of financial support enough to raise jihad in the battlefields of jihad. Jihad today is a duty of every Muslim."

Of course jihad is holy WAR as these remarks attest, but that is only one part of jihad. There is also the ever-present non-violent jihad led by the Muslim Brotherhood and their hundreds of front groups, who step by step are Islamizing the West with their stealth jihad (AKA Islamization) in hundreds of ways, with the same goal >> to destroy Western Civilization and erect an Islamic state (caliphate) in its place.

"The process of settlement [of Islam in the United States] is a "Civilization-Jihadist" process with all that the word means. The Ikhwan [Muslim Brotherhood in North America] must understand that all their work in America is a kind of grand jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" their miserable house by their hands, and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated, and Allah's religion is made victorious over all religions."

Mohamed Akram, "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America" May 22, 1991, Government Exhibit 003-0085, United States vs. Holy Land Foundation, et al.

PS - you didn't answer my question regarding "cherry-picking" and the doctor convicted of murder.

Again History and the past are, and today's modern terrorist are two completely different thing. Your meaning of Jihad is wrong we both know we are not going to agree though I suggest you stop reading one sided books and research the situation from many angles.

Did Islam make people invade other lands sure I won't argue that it happens when people use there power to manipulate people by using something the y hold dear such as faith.

Christianity did the same thing people of power manipulated people into invading the holy land. The were told it had to be done because God so wanted it. Those few in power pulled the people's strings by using their faith.

How many other religions have caused people to invade other who don't see their way? I can name quite a few.

All the places you named have also been invaded by Christians also so using the past is getting away from the subject at hand.

I can name a half dozen historic times where rulers used religion to manipulate people to do their bidding. Again the past.

Modern day terrorist as we call them those same people were once called freedom fighters by us in 80's. Oh they banned themselves together with the blessing of the US and we funded them with weapons to fight the Soviet Union.

Fast forward what they warned us in the 80's was to get out of their land the bombing of the Marine barracks was the last straw and we left until....

Now fast forward to the first gulf war we land in mass in Saudi Arabia. Again the terrorist warn us to leave their land or they will use any means they can. We fight and beat Sadam. What do we do? We don't leave like we should we stay in Saudi Arabia. Not only do we stay but we spread our forces out in the ME into different countries.

The Muslims look at us as an occupying force which in all rights we are, we have no business being their. You want to know why the Muslims are pissed at us because we said we would leave at the finish of the first was and we didn't we occupied.

Not only did we occupy but we have the majority of our forces in Saudi Arabia where the two holiest cities for Muslims are located. So if we left pulled our Military out I think they pretty much would leave us alone. Once the Soviet Union left Afghanistan in the 80's the terrorists left them alone.

We have no business occupying any country under any pretenses. Our founding was based on the same thing. Are you gonna call are founders terrorist because they used tactics to subvert British rule?

I may deplore the tactics they use but I will agree with them on one point only the US as a force does not need to be there at all.

I did not forget to answer anything your question was not a relevant question. Cherry Picking text to fit your meanings can not compare to a Doctor evidence at a Murder trial. So it was not answered with reason. You were asking a question trying to compare apples to Oranges.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Hmm... interesting. It seems Muslims do not support free speech.

To be more accurate...many "Muslim Communities" do not promote free speech.

Hell they kill people for Making a damn cartoon.

Seems silly to bomb someone for drawing a bomb.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
To be more accurate...many "Muslim Communities" do not promote free speech.

Hell they kill people for Making a damn cartoon.

Seems silly to bomb someone for drawing a bomb.

Free speech is overrated but killing people over bad jokes? It does seem excessive.
 
Jan 2013
64
0
Whoa. I do agree that Muslims are freaking retarded, and exploit their own culture for their own hidious pleasures, but Free Speech is not over-rated.
 
Jan 2013
47
0
What I don't have respect for are people who make judgements on things without examining them, just because their Islamist masters advised them not to.

You are the one who has not examined Islam properly, as evidenced by your continued misunderstanding of a number of key points about the religion. Islam is a religion of great beauty and I would encourage you to study it before making judgments about it. It is very similar to Christianity, the resemblance is uncanny. As with Christianity, there are a few small sects and doctrines within Islam that advocate violence, but in both religions these are but a small minority.

Don't get buy into the myths perpetrated by hate-mongers and bigots against Islam. Islamic terrorists are no closer to Islamic orthodoxy than the Christian terrorists who blow up abortion clinics resemble Christian orthodoxy. Orthodox Islamic values accord with Orthodox Christian values in all important respect, the reverence of One God, compassion and charity for the poor, purity of the body and respect for marriage. I admire Islam very much, as much as I admire Christianity. It is peaceful, compassionate, and a wonderful religion.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Whoa. I do agree that Muslims are freaking retarded, and exploit their own culture for their own hidious pleasures, but Free Speech is not over-rated.

I would like to suggest you avoid calling entire populations of people derogatory names.
 
Jul 2009
5,893
474
Port St. Lucie
Whoa. I do agree that Muslims are freaking retarded, and exploit their own culture for their own hidious pleasures, but Free Speech is not over-rated.

Educated dissent isn't the same thing as random BS being spewed. The spread of demonstrably false propaganda and hate speech being banned isn't a bad thing.
 
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