Voted Obama? Embarrassed Yet?

Brn2bfree said:

It's not too late to turn this country around...It might take another revolution or something drastic...nature is going correct itself. We are losing more and more of our freedoms ...especially with Obamacare...We will become like England rioting.

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I do not like Obama or any of his click. But I hope to hell we don't start some lame-ass protesting stuff!

Brn2bfree said:

I'm not saying that he was a small government president. The facts speak for themselves....that Obama has spent more in his 3 years than Bush did in his eight years. Bush put a hole in the dyke and Obama is putting C4 explosive in that hole.

It's not too late to turn this country around...It might take another revolution or something drastic...nature is going correct itself. We are losing more and more of our freedoms ...especially with Obamacare...We will become like England rioting.

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My point is that they are a lot more similar than people often think. We lost a lot of freedom under Bush too- the Patriot Act, for example. Both Presidents have also supported aggressive wars and loose monetary policies. They have both signed legislation that helped special interest groups and hurt the majority of the people- namely in finance with the big banks.

They are nothing special- they were both bought as is much of the Congress. These Democrats vs. Republicans "debates" are nothing more than shenanigans that end up keeping the people rooting for their favorite team. It is no longer about the good of the nation (arguably it never can be), but instead about the good of themselves. It is not necessarily their fault, but the system's fault and how we let it get that way by continually supporting these morally hazardous positions that politicians then enacted while filling their back pockets with $$$.

myp said:

My point is that they are a lot more similar than people often think. We lost a lot of freedom under Bush too- the Patriot Act, for example. Both Presidents have also supported aggressive wars and loose monetary policies. They have both signed legislation that helped special interest groups and hurt the majority of the people- namely in finance with the big banks.

They are nothing special- they were both bought as is much of the Congress. These Democrats vs. Republicans "debates" are nothing more than shenanigans that end up keeping the people rooting for their favorite team. It is no longer about the good of the nation (arguably it never can be), but instead about the good of themselves. It is not necessarily their fault, but the system's fault and how we let it get that way by continually supporting these morally hazardous positions that politicians then enacted while filling their back pockets with $$$.

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Yeah, pretty much looks hopeless for us don't it?

DodgeFB said:

Yeah, pretty much looks hopeless for us don't it?

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I wouldn't say that. This also isn't anything new- it has happened time and time again in history as people have been placed in such positions of power and moral hazard. We need to stop dreaming over government-created prosperity (because it mostly does not exist) and realize that we are just incentivizing people to take advantage of the people.

myp said:

I wouldn't say that. This also isn't anything new- it has happened time and time again in history as people have been placed in such positions of power and moral hazard. We need to stop dreaming over government-created prosperity (because it mostly does not exist) and realize that we are just incentivizing people to take advantage of the people.

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I have never felt like the government could do much of anything right. I have spent a lot of time dealing with them in recent years and most of them have no clue. They may or may not be highly educated. But they have no common sense that people should have be born with.

DodgeFB said:

I have never felt like the government could do much of anything right. I have spent a lot of time dealing with them in recent years and most of them have no clue. They may or may not be highly educated. But they have no common sense that people should have be born with.

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Whether or not they are educated is irrelevant. They are self-interested as arguably all humans are. They are doing what they need to to get what they want- reelected. Very few politicians act out of ideology alone.

Brn2bfree said:

I see...you're one of those who just hates the system.

The president has a lot to do with the way the economy is doing. His policies are not working. Socialism isn't working...re distrabution of income is not working.

Obama increased the deficit more in his three years than Bush did in his eight years. He is nationalizing everything from the auto industry to banking. Obamacare was pushed down our throats. He is Mr Big government. He is clueless and out of control.

We have a great system...we have coruption on both sides but now the Democrat socialists are in power and need to be removed. This administration is the most corrupt in history. Obama and his disregard for the constitution is sickening. Unemployment is over 9% because of liberal policies...

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First, there -is no- redistribution of wealth. For that to actually be happening, we'd have to first actually raise taxes on the wealthy, and the corporations. Congress has completely roadblocked that - we are not collecting more funds to redistribute.

Second, Obama's spending is almost entirely a desperate act to save an economy that at the end of Bush's 'rule' was in a complete nosedive. Are you going to argue that it was still just fallout from the 'dot com bubble' that we like to say was the only reason for Clinton's success? You do realize, that particular bubble generated massive amounts of wealth, but that the money went to extremely high tech endeavors that actually don't directly create jobs? So, if you have a bubble that doesn't create jobs, how can you blame its bursting for the evaporation of millions of jobs? Bush ran our economy into the ground with a vengeance, and then you want to blame the results on other people. To top it off, we technically only LOANED money to GM, and to the mortgage banks. Would you like to know who proposed this? Henry Paulson, who worked with Ben Bernanke to set up the deal. I am sure you must know this already, but these guys are a former, and a present CEO of Goldman Sachs. You may also know that these are two of the men responsible for endorsing the proliferation of the same Credit Default Swaps that ended up torpedoing the housing bubble in the first place.

Third, Unemployment because of -liberal- policies? GW Bush cut government revenues by slashing taxes on those most able to shoulder the burden, and then proceeded to nearly -double- the national debt. During this time, poverty rates rose, jobs disappeared by the hundreds of thousands (many of them going overseas), and median household income dropped significantly.

Odd how we continue to argue that cutting taxes on the rich creates jobs, when the Bush Tax Cuts were put into place in 2001, and over the course of the next 7 years we set multiple new records for numbers of jobs lost in the nation.

You can try to ONLY juxtapose the corrupt right against the ineffectual left (yes I know, both sides have both problems, but each side leans in their own directions, of course), but that's what they want you to do. If you accept one political party as correct, and the other party as wrong, then you have fallen prey to their propaganda - they are both broken, because we as People are not holding our representatives accountable for the -results- of their actions (or inaction, in the case of the Debt Limit fiasco).

We do have a redistribution of wealth. Since 1979, the top 0.5% of the population have got quite a bit wealthier in terms of real wealth. Real wealth (also known as net value) is the sum of someone's assets minus the sum of their liabilities, adjusted for inflation over the time period you are examining. This is based on GAA and Federal Reserve data.

The next 16.5% of the population have gotten a bit wealthier over the same time period, WHILE THE AGGREGATE CHANGE for the remaining 83% of the population has effectively been ZERO!
Breaking that down a bit, the very poor have gotten slightly poorer, the poor have actually stayed the same or gained slightly and on average the middle-class has stayed the same but has lost membership as it very gradually shrinks (with about 6 people dropping down for every 1 climbing up).

If the evil liberal socialists who have supposedly been in charge in America over the past 3 decades have been persistently persecuting the rich, how is it that the rich have benefited at the expense of the rest of us? if the rhetoric of the conservatives was correct, the opposite would have occurred and if the rhetoric of the liberals was correct, everyone would have increased in real wealth by the same percentage (say 5%, for example). The facts don't support the political rhetoric of either the Republicans or the Democrats.