Illegal to fail students if they believe in certain myths as opposed to facts?

[Polydectes]

No one is suggesting that they fail because they get one or two questions wrong, but that if they get it wrong they get it wrong. If the evolution questions account for 31% of the test and they get all of it wrong, they may well get a D which for some schools means they have to retake the class.

Over failing one test?

If evolution questions consist of 31% of a test that seems a bit much. I remember discussing evolution in school and it didn't have such a large part of any test.

It sounds like it is particularly geared to make students fail. Using science as a political tool. It should never be.

 

[myp]

If evolution questions consist of 31% of a test that seems a bit much. I remember discussing evolution in school and it didn't have such a large part of any test.

With all due respect, let's leave it to the biologists and teachers to decide what they want to test. Biology is a very wide field- the focus has to be decided on certain things over others. Take a class that has only 3 tests making up the entire grade. If one is about evolution- and no, that is not "too much"- and they get everything wrong on the test because of their "belief", then there you go 33% right there. Furthermore, evolution in and of itself is a very broad term- if a person considers any DNA/RNA mutation as evolution (which it basically is in a micro form if it is a mutation that affects gametes [in sexual reprod.] or just passed on genes [in asexual]) and thereby rejects it, then they may well see a large portion of biology as evolution and reject it. They should fail if they reflect those views on tests and lose so many points that they get a below-passing grade.

 

[Polydectes]

. They should fail if they reflect those views on tests and lose so many points that they get a below-passing grade.

So you admit you want religious kids to fail. Nobody should be tested on views.

Further more teachers are not the ones that decide what is taught a school board of elected officials do that. Biologists are not even consulted.

 

[myp]

So you admit you want religious kids to fail. Nobody should be tested on views.

Try reading the response again as I think you misunderstand. If they lose so many points that they fail, then they fail.

Further more teachers are not the ones that decide what is taught a school board of elected officials do that. Biologists are not even consulted.

That is a good thing? Either way, you took the term biologist too literally- you can replace it with "biology teacher" and even if the board decides what to teach you would hope someone with some bio knowledge is involved in that process, not some random joe-schmoes.

 

[Polydectes]

Try reading the response again as I think you misunderstand. If they lose so many points that they fail, then they fail.

if you gear a test so they someone committed to their religion fails that is using education to forward a political agenda. People who do not accept evolution are not going to be doctors or geneticists, or biologists if they don't accept evolution. They may be business owners, or mechanics or preachers. So why attempt to force them to deny their religion? It seems so petty to me.

That is a good thing? Either way, you took the term biologist too literally- you can replace it with "biology teacher" and even if the board decides what to teach you would hope someone with some bio knowledge is involved in that process, not some random joe-schmoes.

Biology teachers teach what they are told to teach. I don't think a regular person will do any poorer of a job than the current system, honestly for the richest country in the world our education standards are embarrassing.

Basically what ever they are doing now is not working.

PS I am not suggesting we teach creation in schools. Just instead of worrying with using students as political pawns and playing this game we focus on prepping them for adulthood.

 

[myp]

It isn't political anything. Evolution is a big enough part of biology that concepts of evolution may well be a large part of a general bio class. No one is saying make the tests all about evolution so that the religious kids fail- what we are saying, is teach what the curriculum/board/teachers/biologists think is important to teach. If it ends up being so much evolution that a creation kid who refuses to write the correct facts or learn them on a test fails, then so be it.

But really this is all besides the point because this legislation is talking about not being able to fail students across a whole state, which encompasses many school boards presumably.

 

[Polydectes]

It isn't political anything. Evolution is a big enough part of biology that concepts of evolution may well be a large part of a general bio class. No one is saying make the tests all about evolution so that the religious kids fail- what we are saying, is teach what the curriculum/board/teachers/biologists think is important to teach. If it ends up being so much evolution that a creation kid who refuses to write the correct facts or learn them on a test fails, then so be it.

But really this is all besides the point because this legislation is talking about not being able to fail students across a whole state, which encompasses many school boards presumably.

Shame they need a law.

And it absolutely is political. You have made it so several times by automatically assuming that I am pro creationism. You are arguing a political position.

 

[myp]

Shame they need a law.

Shame this law is even considered. Fact is fact. Besides, if certain communities really are so backwards, they can change their local curriculums, not force this mockery of progress on the rest of the state.

And it absolutely is political. You have made it so several times by automatically assuming that I am pro creationism. You are arguing a political position.

In case it wasn't clear, this is not about politics for me. And I could care less whether or not you believe in creationism, but if you suggest a school shouldn't penalize a student for pushing such myth and getting facts wrong on a test, then yea I have an issue with that. But again, I could care less what you personally believe in.

 

[Polydectes]

Shame this law is even considered. Fact is fact. Besides, if certain communities really are so backwards, they can change their local curriculums, not force this mockery of progress on the rest of the state.



In case it wasn't clear, this is not about politics for me. And I could care less whether or not you believe in creationism, but if you suggest a school shouldn't penalize a student for pushing such myth and getting facts wrong on a test, then yea I have an issue with that. But again, I could care less what you personally believe in.

If you have an issue with it, go storm the school boards. The process will decide. I am okay with that.

And for the thousandth time it isn't the forcing of the teaching of creation, for goodness sakes I don't know how many times I have to repeat that.

You just want it to be evolution v creation but it isn't.

Until you can grasp what is really being discussed here I am afraid we are done discussing this.

 

[myp]

If you have an issue with it, go storm the school boards. The process will decide. I am okay with that.

I am against this law, not the board changes to curriculum. Reread my last post.

And for the thousandth time it isn't the forcing of the teaching of creation, for goodness sakes I don't know how many times I have to repeat that.

And for the thousandth time, stop putting words in my mouth please. I am not arguing against teaching creation since that is not the topic at hand (although should someone argue that then yes I would argue against it), I am arguing against not penalizing students who argue for it on tests about evolution.

You just want it to be evolution v creation but it isn't.

Again, please stop putting words in my mouth.

Until you can grasp what is really being discussed here I am afraid we are done discussing this.

From what I see here you just want to put words in my mouth instead of trying to understand what I am saying. There is a distinction between penalizing creation arguments in the classroom and creationism vs. evolution as belief outside the classroom.

 

[Polydectes]

I am against this law, not the board changes to curriculum. Reread my last post.


And for the thousandth time, stop putting words in my mouth please. I am not arguing against teaching creation since that is not the topic at hand (although should someone argue that then yes I would argue against it), I am arguing against not penalizing students who argue for it on tests about evolution.


Again, please stop putting words in my mouth.


From what I see here you just want to put words in my mouth instead of trying to understand what I am saying. There is a distinction between penalizing creation arguments in the classroom and creationism vs. evolution as belief outside the classroom.

You aren't saying anything relevant to the OP. penalizing people for being religious should not be accepted ever.

 

[myp]

You aren't saying anything relevant to the OP. penalizing people for being religious should not be accepted ever.

Actually you just refuse to accept my point, instead making me out to be an anti-religion player in this issue. I am penalizing kids for getting wrong facts on tests. That is it. If you see that as penalizing religion, so be it.

 

[Polydectes]

Actually you just refuse to accept my point, instead making me out to be an anti-religion player in this issue. I am penalizing kids for getting wrong facts on tests. That is it. If you see that as penalizing religion, so be it.

No you completely missed my point, I don't think you can grasp it. So this is the point where we part ways.

 

[Stonewall]

No you completely missed my point, I don't think you can grasp it. So this is the point where we part ways.

I must say as an unbiased onlooker, myp has struggled grasping much of what I've been showing him as well.

Just sayin.

 

[myp]

I must say as an unbiased onlooker, myp has struggled grasping much of what I've been showing him as well.

Just sayin.

Can we say troll?

 

[Polydectes]

I must say as an unbiased onlooker, myp has struggled grasping much of what I've been showing him as well.

Just sayin.

people who choose darkness will not ever step into light, if you drag them into it they will close their eyes.

Ever heard the saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink.

 

[Stonewall]

I agree, it seems darkness has been 'chosen' by some observers. Sad really.

 

[tecoyah]

Where some see darkness
Others see light
Some watching daylight while we sleep at night
A shadow hides treasure
But how do we know
Eyes playing tricks wherever they go
I see no secret
Hiding there in the dark
Nothing so glowingly beautifully stark
Perhaps I am blinded
By what It might be
But the treasure is empty from what I can see

 

[Stonewall]

Today's world can be so confusing to some. Ungrounded. Without leadership. Not knowing what way to turn, unable to discern right from wrong.

Some observers even unable to determine darkness from light. The simplest of equations. How f'n sad.

So many challenges for so many, so little time.

 

[Polydectes]

Today's world can be so confusing to some. Ungrounded. Without leadership. Not knowing what way to turn, unable to discern right from wrong.

Some observers even unable to determine darkness from light. The simplest of equations. How f'n sad.

So many challenges for so many, so little time.

I was using darkness as a metaphor. But what I see is that some folks ignore humanity, and think science exists outside of it. Science is a human creation to help our minds understand our existence. For something to be it needs no science, it just is, case and point people existed prior to science. But to some that is far to abstract a concept