Democrats revealing the Assault Weapons Ban today.

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Some people were right and some were wrong. I prefer the ones who were right. You prefer the ones who were wrong. I get it.

I will stick with Smith, Hayek and Friedman. You seem to be stuck on stu...er, on Keynes.

They were all right on some things and wrong on others. And I don't know why you have to put words in my mouth. Of those 4 Friedman is easily the greatest influence on me, followed by Hayek and then Keynes. Smith I don't include since comparing him to those three is kind of like apples and oranges given the time period difference and the difference in the conduction of economics.

Also, your simplest theory again doesn't do justice to these people. Why are you clumping Hayek, Friedman, and Smith? They had a lot of differences. Hayek was against central banking- Friedman, clearly not. They had large differences in thought although they of course had a lot of similarities too- that could be said with Keynes too though.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Again and for the billionth time... basic research at the NIH- you know, the stuff that leads to drug development and clinical trials that produce drugs that extend and save millions of lives? That stuff.
Is the national institute of health a regulatory agency? If so it's studies are biased. If not they might still be biased. The case is harder to make as they win, meaning they can grow no matter what the results of the studies show.

For regulatory agencies there is only one reason for them to pay for a study. It is to make the case that we are doomed unless their agency has more power over the people.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Thankfully great men like Hayek, Friedman, and Keynes rejected your simplest methodology and looked to more rigorous forms of experiment and thought- that is what made them great. None of them started with this "liberty vs. tyranny" or "black v. white" narrative.
I think the point that you are missing is that they were geniuses who worked their way through the issues. The distillation of their lives and their works can be purchased, read and understood by practically anyone.

It is not complicated. Adam Smith did not start with a concept of liberty versus tyranny. But that is what his conclusions showed. Hayek had the same experience. Keynes and Marx preferred tyranny. They were "Masterminds" who would think and decide for the rest of us. They were wrong and we see the misery both have caused. It would have been better for the entire world if these two had been aborted or strangled by their mothers at birth.

(I threw in that last bit for comic relief. Really. I did.)
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
They were all right on some things and wrong on others. And I don't know why you have to put words in my mouth. Of those 4 Friedman is easily the greatest influence on me, followed by Hayek and then Keynes. Smith I don't include since comparing him to those three is kind of like apples and oranges given the time period difference and the difference in the conduction of economics.

Also, your simplest theory again doesn't do justice to these people. Why are you clumping Hayek, Friedman, and Smith? They had a lot of differences. Hayek was against central banking- Friedman, clearly not. They had large differences in thought although they of course had a lot of similarities too- that could be said with Keynes too though.
One must reach the core issues. Are the people free to choose or aren't they?
All other things are mere details.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
There are plenty of people in scientific fields who don't understand the thought basis of science. In your case, maybe you just haven't realized its application in various areas outside of engineering.
Have I mentioned that I read very widely and dabble in many things?

I started as a warrior-philosopher. I mellowed into an engineer.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
Is the national institute of health a regulatory agency? If so it's studies are biased. If not they might still be biased. The case is harder to make as they win, meaning they can grow no matter what the results of the studies show.

For regulatory agencies there is only one reason for them to pay for a study. It is to make the case that we are doomed unless their agency has more power over the people.

I never said the study money should go to regulatory bodies. It should go to a proper research institution, whether public or private.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
It is not complicated. Adam Smith did not start with a concept of liberty versus tyranny. But that is what his conclusions showed. Hayek had the same experience. Keynes and Marx preferred tyranny.

Except that's not true and it is much more complicated and those men straight up said it. That is why they went by the studies, the numbers, the data. Their conclusions might have differed, but let's not pretend Keynes was anything but pro-capitalism too. On a scale that includes Marx with Marx being 0 and 100 being polar opposite, Friedman and Keynes would only be a few numbers apart and both very distant from Marx. Hayek would be a bit more the other way, but still closer to Friedman and Keynes that Friedman and Keynes are to Marx.
 

myp

Jan 2009
5,841
50
One must reach the core issues. Are the people free to choose or aren't they?
All other things are mere details.

Free to choose what? (and yes, I know that is the title of a Friedman book if that is what you're getting at [a book I have read most of])
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
I never said the study money should go to regulatory bodies. It should go to a proper research institution, whether public or private.
The majority of the money? Who allocates it? Regulatory agencies? Or someone else?

If it is a good idea government will not have anything to do with it. Or at least that is the way to bet.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Except that's not true and it is much more complicated and those men straight up said it. That is why they went by the studies, the numbers, the data. Their conclusions might have differed, but let's not pretend Keynes was anything but pro-capitalism too. On a scale that includes Marx with Marx being 0 and 100 being polar opposite, Friedman and Keynes would only be a few numbers apart and both very distant from Marx. Hayek would be a bit more the other way, but still closer to Friedman and Keynes that Friedman and Keynes are to Marx.
We disagree.

Friedman and Keynes were very wide apart. Keynes is close to Marx. Friedman is close to Hayek. Tyranny or Liberty?
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Free to choose what? (and yes, I know that is the title of a Friedman book if that is what you're getting at [a book I have read most of])

:)

In everyday details how free are we to choose? We are no longer free. I cannot choose a toilet that requires six gallons of water to flush. I am constrained by busybody bureaucrats to 1.6 gallons. **** them and their sh*t stains.

I have to buy a light bulb that costs me 7 dollars and enriches an Obama supporter instead of one that did the job just fine for less than a dollar.

**** Obama and his supporters.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
:)

In everyday details how free are we to choose? We are no longer free. I cannot choose a toilet that requires six gallons of water to flush. I am constrained by busybody bureaucrats to 1.6 gallons. **** them and their sh*t stains.

I have to buy a light bulb that costs me 7 dollars and enriches an Obama supporter instead of one that did the job just fine for less than a dollar.

**** Obama and his supporters.


You also cannot choose beef tainted with E coli, a car that spews massive pollution, or a surface to air missle. Government and society have decided it's a bad Idea.

You cannot choose a new frindge that is inefficient, a rotary telephone, or a biplane. The markets have decided these are a bad idea as well.

Progress is not a plot.
 
Feb 2013
1,219
174
just past the moons of Jupiter
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Tyranny grows. Some are blind to it

You also cannot choose beef tainted with E coli, a car that spews massive pollution, or a surface to air missle. Government and society have decided it's a bad Idea.

You cannot choose a new frindge that is inefficient, a rotary telephone, or a biplane. The markets have decided these are a bad idea as well.

Progress is not a plot.
Government coercion is not progress. There is a difference between the market responding to the customers and the heavy hand of government. I believe your blindness to the difference is why you are blind to the growing tyranny that is all around us.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
Government coercion is not progress. There is a difference between the market responding to the customers and the heavy hand of government. I believe your blindness to the difference is why you are blind to the growing tyranny that is all around us.

Considering my post purposefully differentiated Government from Market quite clearly...I am left to wonder where your "Blindness" claim came from. However, I suppose I am truly blind to the tyranny you seem to see all around you.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Blind by personal choice

Considering my post purposefully differentiated Government from Market quite clearly...I am left to wonder where your "Blindness" claim came from. However, I suppose I am truly blind to the tyranny you seem to see all around you.
Here is a small example of an out of control federal government weaving a massive web of rules and regulations with little to no input from us.

GAO: 35% of Major Federal Regulations Were Issued Without Public Notice | CNS News
“During calendar years 2003 through 2010, agencies published 568 major rules and about 30,000 nonmajor rules,” the GAO said in a December report to Congress. “[Federal] agencies published about 35 percent of major rules and about 44 percent of nonmajor rules without an NPRM during those years.”

The GAO found a large spike in this practice under President Barack Obama, with the percentage of major rules issued without public notice jumping from 26 percent in 2008 to 40 percent in 2009. The number of major rules issued this way also hit a high point in both 2009 and 2010. (Obama’s first year in office as president began in January 2009.)​

You choose to be blind. It is not a requirement.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
My curious nature compels me to ask you a few questions.

How Many of the 30,568 regulations did you actually know about, care about, or feel the impact of?

Would you have the time, interest, or motivation to do something to effect those you actually knew about?

Do you feel those who actually do the things above should stop doing it?


We have a Government for a reason...regulation is a part of that.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
My curious nature compels me to ask you a few questions.

How Many of the 30,568 regulations did you actually know about, care about, or feel the impact of?

Would you have the time, interest, or motivation to do something to effect those you actually knew about?

Do you feel those who actually do the things above should stop doing it?

We have a Government for a reason...regulation is a part of that.
I feel the impact of many of them. Everything I buy is more expensive because of them. I cannot buy some things any longer because of them. My choices are reduced or eliminated because of them. Your's too.

When I started my first company I was surprised by just how many regulations there were that directed how I could run my business. Now there are so many more I decided not to start another.

The impacts are insidious. Compliance costs. Lost opportunities. Constraints. They affect you as well.

The best benefit the economy could have is to begin rescinding the 80,000 pages of new regulations from just the last four years.
 
Oct 2012
4,429
1,084
Louisville, Ky
...snip....

The best benefit the economy could have is to begin rescinding the 80,000 pages of new regulations from just the last four years.

Perhaps...yet the last 4 yrs have very little to do with what you see as a stifle to your freedom:

"Obama’s White House has approved fewer regulations than his predecessor George W. Bush at this same point in their tenures, and the estimated costs of those rules haven’t reached the annual peak set in fiscal 1992 under Bush’s father, according to government data reviewed by Bloomberg News. "
Obama Wrote 5% Fewer Rules Than Bush While Costing Business - Bloomberg

Though I can agree over regulation does not help industry, I also understand a lack of regulation can be far worse....may I remind you of what led to the last recession?

A simple mind does not notice complexity.
 
Dec 2012
518
11
Madison, AL
Perhaps...yet the last 4 yrs have very little to do with what you see as a stifle to your freedom:

"Obama’s White House has approved fewer regulations than his predecessor George W. Bush at this same point in their tenures, and the estimated costs of those rules haven’t reached the annual peak set in fiscal 1992 under Bush’s father, according to government data reviewed by Bloomberg News. "
Obama Wrote 5% Fewer Rules Than Bush While Costing Business - Bloomberg

Though I can agree over regulation does not help industry, I also understand a lack of regulation can be far worse....may I remind you of what led to the last recession?

A simple mind does not notice complexity.
I do believe you will try to find someone in the left press who can refute anything I write. Here is a quote from one study I found:
In its first year, the Bush Administration issued only one major rule that increased regulation. President Obama issued 13 in 2009. President Bush was in his third year before new costs hit $4 billion. President Obama has achieved the same in one year.
Moreover, the reported costs likely underestimate the total cost of new regulation. Costs for many rules, for example, are not quantified. Moreover, the estimates are drawn from analyses produced by the regulators themselves, who have an incentive to minimize the reported costs.​
That was written in April 2010.

The One, the Marxist, and his busybody bureaucrats have been hard at it ever since.

Here is another quote:
So far, more than 13,000 pages of federal ObamaCare regulations have been issued, but employers, states, and health companies say they need much more.

One recent rule took 18 pages to define a “full time employee.”​

Do you see anything wrong with this picture?

Please tell me what caused the "last" recession, you know, the one we are really still in? I cannot wait to hear the views of one who believes that socialism is a form of capitalism.
 
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