Gallup: obama approval/disapproval 41/51

Patrick · Nov 17, 2011

dabdab said:
NO I won . regardless of how they came out WWII unscathed or not , you don't dispute -but confirm- my point of there prosperity although they made education and health care free which you claimed " it tends to DEGRADE the society", and I gave you Sweden as an example contradicting your said claim .

Is creating wealth by supporting the aggressors in a war that claimed the lives of 50 million people and destroyed much of europe and asia degrading?

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

surly you were not saying living in a rented apartment is degrading ?. it's there every were . the degrading things they don't have are unemployment , soup kitchens , homelessness and poverty .

I didn't say living in an apartment was degrading Captain Strawman, I offered that as an example to show that you overemphasize their national wealth compared to eg the US where MOST people live in HOUSES. It's also an indication of the confiscatory taxes they pay for free health care and free education (which we also have in the US - did you notice???).

dabdab · Nov 17, 2011

Patrick said:
Is creating wealth by supporting the aggressors in a war that claimed the lives of 50 million people and destroyed much of europe and asia degrading?

DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

that is a silly lie from your side the war was between other countries .
the USA emerged from that war along with it's allay the USSR , stronger than any body else . and stayed that way until the 70 ies ware both empires started to crumble under the wight of there respective ideology , one empire finished and started over a fresh the other is gasping for breath.

Patrick said:
I didn't say living in an apartment was degrading Captain Strawman, I offered that as an example to show that you overemphasize their national wealth compared to eg the US where MOST people live in HOUSES. It's also an indication of the confiscatory taxes they pay for free health care and free education (which we also have in the US - did you notice???).

again I rest my case . you are paying confiscatory taxes and still without free health care and with out free education and with crumbling infra-structure and with an escalating debt and a widening trad deficit for the last 20 years , and with poverty and homelessness and unemployment . you are living in a borrowed money and borrowed time if you don't go back to the tried and tested .

Patrick · Nov 17, 2011

dabdab said:
that is a silly lie from your side the war was between other countries .

Yet another imbecile who's never opened a history book. From the wiki entry on sweden: Sweden also supplied steel and machined parts to Germany throughout the war.

Sweden asserted neutrality during the war, but violated it by tremendously supporting the nazi war effort. Therefore saying "the war was between other countries" is completely assinine. If the the nazis had consolidated and held europe, OBVIOUSLY the neutral countries would have eventually been swallowed up. Sweden was therefore a parasite that let other countries implicitly fight for it, while also racking up big profits as a WWII merchant of death.

the USA emerged from that war along with it's allay the USSR , stronger than any body else . and stayed that way until the 70 ies ware both empires started to crumble under the wight of there respective ideology , one empire finished and started over a fresh the other is gasping for breath.

The above is incoherent, irrelevent, and unschooled blather.

blah blah blah....

More irrelevent off-topic ranting.

dabdab · Nov 18, 2011

Patrick said:
Yet another imbecile who's never opened a history book. From the wiki entry on sweden: Sweden also supplied steel and machined parts to Germany throughout the war.

what does that tell you about Sweden now or about the subject of discussion namely free health care and free education ?

Patrick said:
Sweden asserted neutrality during the war, but violated it by tremendously supporting the nazi war effort. Therefore saying "the war was between other countries" is completely assinine. If the the nazis had consolidated and held europe, OBVIOUSLY the neutral countries would have eventually been swallowed up. Sweden was therefore a parasite that let other countries implicitly fight for it, while also racking up big profits as a WWII merchant of death.

asinine ! what does that tell you about the subject of discussion namely free health care and free education ?

Patrick said:
the USA emerged from that war along with it's allay the USSR , stronger than any body else . and stayed that way until the 70 ies ware both empires started to crumble under the wight of there respective ideology , one empire finished and started over a fresh the other is gasping for breath.

The above is incoherent, irrelevent, and unschooled blather.

why did you bring it then , why didn't you stick to the subject of discussion namely free health care and free education and your claimed " it tends to DEGRADE the society" ?

Patrick · Nov 18, 2011

dabdab said:
what does that tell you about Sweden now or about the subject of discussion namely free health care and free education ?

asinine ! what does that tell you about the subject of discussion namely free health care and free education ?

why did you bring it then , why didn't you stick to the subject of discussion namely free health care and free education and your claimed " it tends to DEGRADE the society" ?

You sound like one of these people who read the last post in a long thread, and think you'll understand what's said. Go back and read from the beginning, einstein.

David · Nov 18, 2011

Patrick said:
Snip

Meanwhile The Big 3 were building fighters, tanks and transports for the Nazis while playing every card the could to no switch to wartime production in the US. German trucks looked lie Jeeps for a reason.

dabdab · Nov 19, 2011

Patrick said:
You sound like one of these people who read the last post in a long thread, and think you'll understand what's said. Go back and read from the beginning, einstein.

sound to whom ?
enough shooting from your hep and prove your claim if you can about if health care and education cheap for them, in one way or another it's a tax on society which must PAY for it, which tends to DEGRADE the society.

Patrick · Nov 19, 2011

David said:
Meanwhile The Big 3 were building fighters, tanks and transports for the Nazis while playing every card the could to no switch to wartime production in the US. German trucks looked lie Jeeps for a reason.

Sheer lunatic fiction.

David · Nov 19, 2011

Patrick said:
Sheer lunatic fiction.

History. But ou probably skipped that course in HS.

Patrick · Nov 19, 2011

David said:
History. But ou probably skipped that course in HS.

You can't produce a single credible reference for the claim that the US built fighters and tanks for the nazis.

David · Nov 19, 2011

Patrick said:
You can't produce a single credible reference for the claim that the US built fighters and tanks for the nazis.

I didn't say the US (WTH would we?), I said The Big 3.

dabdab · Nov 20, 2011

myp said:
Been reading Fresco lately or something? A completely automated economy is not currently possible. There are many services that machines cannot do at least until you invent advanced AI. Things like consulting and analyzing are one- humans can often do those things much better than current computers. Then you have innovation and experimentation/studies which robots can't do.

Arguably, you will never have a completely automated economy because there are some jobs (for example prostitution) that require humans and any perfect substitute that is man-made will be a human.

All that aside, who do you think will control these machines, etc.? It is logistically not viable and politically (when it comes to freedoms) very dangerous.

And when it comes to your idea that everyone will have everything they want- that makes no sense and is impossible. Economics looks at the distribution of limited resources. The Earth has limited resources. Everyone can't have everything they want.

I thing what David is talking about is everyone will have everything they want , that is essential like food , housing , entertainment , transportation . here is the time to bring up utility and value thing . if you look for something like music 200 years ago only elates can enjoy it every night or every weekend , but now with an i pod almost every body can enjoy as much music and as often as he want .This and bare in mind that the most important things are free for all , just think of tow thing : air and water .
The role of automation is make the value added by human is very low . so imagine if city can make watter management and recycling automatic this take a major cost and you will never run out of water in this city even if it is in the middle Kalahari desert . because Automation and recycling will remove scarcity of material and labor .
Comes the hard part : energy . will , turned to be not that hard . like air or water it is there in abundance and the tech to harnce it is already in place no thanks to Rony And Bill , but thanks to JFK and FDR and thanks to NASA . if only we can get red of the mentality of Ain Rand and tea party .
For the sun give us enough energy to run and do far more than we get from any other way .including nuk . and pollution free .
And think of travel do you remember "around the world in 80 days " , now it is about 80 hours ,with fraction of the cost . or 80 minutes if you use google earth
this is the different between creativity and cynicism

myp · Nov 20, 2011

dabdab said:
I thing what David is talking about is everyone will have everything they want , that is essential like food , housing , entertainment , transportation

Not possible. What if I ask for 10000000 Ferraris?

dabdab said:
here is the time to bring up utility and value thing .

Who are you to decide when things can be brought up? Not my fault that you couldn't comprehend why value mattered in our past discussion.

dabdab said:
if you look for something like music 200 years ago only elates can enjoy it every night or every weekend , but now with an i pod almost every body can enjoy as much music and as often as he want .

You can thank markets and mass production for that.

dabdab said:
This and bare in mind that the most important things are free for all , just think of tow thing : air and water .

Everyone does not have access to water.

dabdab said:
The role of automation is make the value added by human is very low . so imagine if city can make watter management and recycling automatic this take a major cost and you will never run out of water in this city even if it is in the middle Kalahari desert . because Automation and recycling will remove scarcity of material and labor .

It is fine that you are for automation, but how do you think that should be brought about? Markets are already moving towards it- handing it to some bureaucrat would likely end up in a greater misallocation of resources.

dabdab said:
Comes the hard part : energy . will , turned to be not that hard . like air or water it is there in abundance and the tech to harnce it is already in place no thanks to Rony And Bill , but thanks to JFK and FDR and thanks to NASA . if only we can get red of the mentality of Ain Rand and tea party .

Stop with the conspiracies and blatant bias (give actual proof if you want to throw out names like that). And what tech are you referring to here?

dabdab said:
For the sun give us enough energy to run and do far more than we get from any other way .including nuk . and pollution free .

How do you assume we harness that energy? Solar power is still not efficient enough to power the world yet. For one, powering the world through only solar is not even possible right now because where are you going to come up with the energy to make all those solar panels?

dabdab · Nov 20, 2011

myp said:
Not possible. What if I ask for 10000000 Ferraris?

please r-read what i wrote I said "I think what David is talking about is everyone will have everything they want , that is essential like food , housing , entertainment , transportation ." and "The role of automation is tomake the value added by human is very low "
only David can say it true or false
What if you ask for 10000000 Ferraris? if it is esssntial then it is a good question , but how about an alternative ?

myp said:
Who are you to decide when things can be brought up? Not my fault that you couldn't comprehend why value mattered in our past discussion.

Doesn't matter who I am nor dose it matte if you don't .I just think it is relevant here

myp said:
You can thank markets and mass production for that.

thank God first and for most for this nature , and thaks to men and women of science and wisdom in all ages and continents . markets and mass production are the product of there collective intellects .

Everyone does not have access to water.

Everyone can drink water as much as he want in any city of the world

It is fine that you are for automation, but how do you think that should be brought about? Markets are already moving towards it- handing it to some bureaucrat would likely end up in a greater misallocation of resources.

Yes like what happened in wall street . the challange is to come up with ideas that take you there . bureaucrat, are but men and women like the ones in wall street , doing there respective jobs nothing inherently good or bad about them it is all about what they do and accomplish .

Stop with the conspiracies and blatant bias (give actual proof if you want to throw out names like that). And what tech are you referring to here?

There is no conspiracies here both Rony and Bill along with other implemented policies that they thought good I seek to defer and blame wall street meltdown on there policies .

How do you assume we harness that energy? Solar power is still not efficient enough to power the world yet. For one, powering the world through only solar is not even possible right now because where are you going to come up with the energy to make all those solar panels?

sun gives us light and wind and waves , I did not talk about the word as one country nor did I start to put in practice a program nor did I say solar panels alone .I was talking about the possibilities for David's vision . however , as you said about automation is also true about solar power . if R&D and education was a priority more than wall street products new techs will emerge . with out it , it will take longer, that is all . do you know that you can actually print solar panels on plastic ? . and do you know there is already plans to produce electricity using solar panels in north Africa and transfer it through cables to Europe ?.

myp · Nov 20, 2011

dabdab said:
please r-read what i wrote I said "I think what David is talking about is everyone will have everything they want , that is essential like food , housing , entertainment , transportation ." and "The role of automation is tomake the value added by human is very low "
only David can say it true or false
What if you ask for 10000000 Ferraris? if it is esssntial then it is a good question , but how about an alternative ?

The point is it is subjective. I just said Ferraris because you said transportation. You can apply this to any of your things- what if I said I wanted a hugeeeeee house and tons of cakes, fruits, and bread, with live concert entertainment, etc.?

dabdab said:
Doesn't matter who I am nor dose it matte if you don't .I just think it is relevant here

I am not disagreeing, but just saying it was relevant in the other thread too even though you completely dismissed it and then posted here saying it is relevant here instead.

dabdab said:
Everyone can drink water as much as he want in any city of the world

Are you kidding me? There are MILLIONS of people without drinkable water. Africa has a particularly high number.

dabdab said:
Yes like what happened in wall street . the challange is to come up with ideas that take you there . bureaucrat, are but men and women like the ones in wall street , doing there respective jobs nothing inherently good or bad about them it is all about what they do and accomplish .

It can strongly be argued that a substantial part of the misallocations in this recent crisis were due to government interference in the market. That aside, what ideas will take you there are subjective. The track record for the market is much better than that of the government in this arena.

dabdab said:
There is no conspiracies here both Rony and Bill along with other implemented policies that they thought good I seek to defer and blame wall street meltdown on there policies .

What policies specifically?

dabdab said:
sun gives us light and wind and waves

Um, no. The gravitational pull of the MOON is responsible for the waves. Wind comes from the pressure gradient of air on Earth.

dabdab said:
, I did not talk about the word as one country nor did I start to put in practice a program nor did I say solar panels alone .I was talking about the possibilities for David's vision . however , as you said about automation is also true about solar power . if R&D and education was a priority more than wall street products new techs will emerge . with out it , it will take longer, that is all . do you know that you can actually print solar panels on plastic ? . and do you know there is already plans to produce electricity using solar panels in north Africa and transfer it through cables to Europe ?.

I don't see your point here. Show me the numbers in how solar power as is can be a major provider of electricity as you claim. Anecdotes mean little here since you are making such grand claims.

Patrick · Nov 20, 2011

myp said:
Um, no. The gravitational pull of the MOON is responsible for the waves.

Actually the moon (2/3) AND the sun (1/3).

Wind comes from the pressure gradient of air on Earth.

Ultimately it comes from the heating of the sun.

dabdab · Nov 21, 2011

Patrick said:
Actually the moon (2/3) AND the sun (1/3).

Ultimately it comes from the heating of the sun.

you are right

dabdab · Nov 21, 2011

myp said:
The point is it is subjective. I just said Ferraris because you said transportation. You can apply this to any of your things- what if I said I wanted a hugeeeeee house and tons of cakes, fruits, and bread, with live concert entertainment, etc.?

no new answer here

myp said:
I am not disagreeing, but just saying it was relevant in the other thread too even though you completely dismissed it and then posted here saying it is relevant here instead.

have there been no deference of openions there would be no market who knows maybe I or you change our mind some other day I know I can .

Are you kidding me? There are MILLIONS of people without drinkable water. Africa has a particularly high number.

without drinkable water ! no ,without safe drinkable water maybe .

It can strongly be argued that a substantial part of the misallocations in this recent crisis were due to government interference in the market. That aside, what ideas will take you there are subjective. The track record for the market is much better than that of the government in this arena.

every thing can be argued but the fact remain CDO is a phoney product . and it is the sole responsibility of wall street .has the market invested this money in automating a product it would be beter .

myp said:
What policies specifically?

Removing the controls that were put after the great depression

myp said:
I don't see your point here. Show me the numbers in how solar power as is can be a major provider of electricity as you claim. Anecdotes mean little here since you are making such grand claims.

I'm not sure of understanding your question because as is no thing works and I did not say it already operational . and I 'd like to remind you that I was talking about the possibilities and plans for that chick this .is this what you want ?

myp · Nov 21, 2011

dabdab said:
no new answer here

Why not? You haven't addressed the possibility. Or do you realize the idea is flawed?

dabdab said:
without drinkable water ! no ,without safe drinkable water maybe .

What does that even mean? If it is polluted with toxins or cholera-causing bacteria, etc. it is not drinkable.

dabdab said:
every thing can be argued but the fact remain CDO is a phoney product . and it is the sole responsibility of wall street .has the market invested this money in automating a product it would be beter .

CDOs are not "phony" inherently. Many of the mortgage CDOs we saw failed, but that won't always be the case.

dabdab said:
Removing the controls that were put after the great depression

What specifically? Graham-Leach-Blilely? Because the only reason that caused a problem was because of standing moral hazard through government insurance-acting programs such as Fannie/Freddie's involvement, low rates, and the FDIC.

dabdab said:
I'm not sure of understanding your question because as is no thing works and I did not say it already operational . and I 'd like to remind you that I was talking about the possibilities and plans for that chick this .is this what you want ?

The point is you can't switch to solar overnight and at current efficiency levels it likely isn't possible to switch to just solar. Oil/coal is still needed.

dabdab · Nov 21, 2011

myp said:
Why not? You haven't addressed the possibility. Or do you realize the idea is flawed?

The flaw is in your head because you assume every thing I imagined , entertaining David's idea has to be exactly as yours I was talking about the essential things proving the possibility by examples of technology creating abundance for something was scarce .It seems to me you are intertaining the idea that the hole objective is eliminate production for money or trade , that is not the idea I,m entertaining .
I 'm entertaining the Idea of making the essential things free in an acceptable level .
that doesn't mean I will put caviar on the table nor does it mean I will prevent any body to work his butt out to get caviar in his table or get that diamond ring or that 10000000 Ferraris .

What does that even mean? If it is polluted with toxins or cholera-causing bacteria, etc. it is not drinkable.

it means the water itself is in abundance in quantities sufficient to quill man's thirst which is my point

myp said:
CDOs are not "phony" inherently. Many of the mortgage CDOs we saw failed, but that won't always be the case.

Yes they are phoney in my opinion . a product has to be a tangible product or tangible utility .

What specifically? Graham-Leach-Blilely? Because the only reason that caused a problem was because of standing moral hazard through government insurance-acting programs such as Fannie/Freddie's involvement, low rates, and the FDIC.

the Glass–Steagall Act of 1933 was enacted for a reason , to guard against the entanglement of defendant financial institutions repealing it made the history repeat itself .
Fannie/Freddie's involvement is not alone , banks created the so called sub prime mortgages and for the purpose of selling it to investment banks who buy it for the sole purpose of creating CDOs . it is a pyramid investment .sub prime mortgages are a flawed product by neglect or design . imagine what would happen to ford or toyota if they install a hazardous part .
low rates, and the FDIC are the salt and pepper for this which prugh

The point is you can't switch to solar overnight and at current efficiency levels it likely isn't possible to switch to just solar. Oil/coal is still needed.

Again another assumption from your side . I never said we can switch to solar overnight I only emphasized the possibility . As for efficiency levels of the solar cells , that depends on the perspective you are looking at as far as the production of electricity is concerned it's efficiency is acceptable but to use it you have to convert it to an AC current and /or you have to store it in batteries that make it less efficient , never the less there are people in the US that use it economically and exchange with the grid .

Gallup: obama approval/disapproval 41/51

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