Except affording supremacy to secularism, all religions are equally beneath secularism.
Secularism is a religion, how is it not?
Except affording supremacy to secularism, all religions are equally beneath secularism.
Secularism is a religion, how is it not?
Polydectes, you can turn a cold shoulder to the evidence all you want, but that does not mean it ceases to exist.
You yourself draw a line between fact and opinion somewhere. Everyone does. With evolution you are drawing it so far that you are either being hypocritical in accepting other scientific fact like germ theory due to the large difference in methodological rigor you require for evolution vs. such other theory or you require such a great body of proof for something that you probably reject most things accepted as fact right now- again including things like germ theory. We all know about Descartes' final conclusion, but we also realize that fact as we define it can exist before that given that some facts are still more factual than opinions.
You yourself draw a line between fact and opinion somewhere. Everyone does. With evolution you are drawing it so far that you are either being hypocritical in accepting other scientific fact like germ theory due to the large difference in methodological rigor you require for evolution vs. such other theory or you require such a great body of proof for something that you probably reject most things accepted as fact right now- again including things like germ theory. We all know about Descartes' final conclusion, but we also realize that fact as we define it can exist before that given that some facts are still more factual than opinions.
We can save that topic for another thread if you want to discuss it further.
thank you, I can believe whatever I want, you have no say. you say that religious people are stupid and want to believe myths, yet you can't beat them, what does that say about you?
furthermore it doesn't matter what you think, you insist your beliefs are fact, okay I believe that you believe that your beliefs are fact. I don't necessarily share them. you cannot force them up on me either, make use your religion to support your religion, but that is no different than the way Christians operate.
if you want to believe in magic soup I have nothing to say about that. but you cannot force your beliefs on me, that's what wars are fought over.
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this is your topic, and you keep going off topic talking about how important evolution is. you get this discussion is in about that, it's about protecting children from bigoted teachers that would fail them because they hate christianity.
it is extremely pathetic that we have to make a law in this day in age to protect children from bigotry in a public school.
you must tolerate people who do not use your logic, otherwise we have fascism.
you have the right to disagree but you don't have the right to force your believes on anybody.
try taking some lessons in tolerance, if I have to tolerate people who wish to kill me because of things outside of my control you're big enough man you can tolerate people who believe differently than you.
I wish to point out the reasons debate sites exist in the first place:
As humans we do not think the same way, yet we feel what we think is correct.
As humans we all feel the need to project our opinions on a stage, and in some way sway the world.
Some use a tactic involving verified, or at least verifiable data to promote this understanding...others use opinion and conjecture while expecting or imagining a similar result.
A fact based and easily verified argument will always defeat opinion and BS.
Nastiness results when it does.
My opinion entirely....and I may very well be wrong to many.
As humans we do not think the same way, yet we feel what we think is correct.
As humans we all feel the need to project our opinions on a stage, and in some way sway the world.
Some use a tactic involving verified, or at least verifiable data to promote this understanding...others use opinion and conjecture while expecting or imagining a similar result.
A fact based and easily verified argument will always defeat opinion and BS.
Nastiness results when it does.
My opinion entirely....and I may very well be wrong to many.
since it hasn't won this debate, good Lucien must not be fact.
I'm glad you've learned how to be civil, pity it took me reporting you twice.
Do you want to go reread all of my posts because I never said you or religious people can't believe what you want. What I am saying is that certain things you are foolish to deny and that certain things should not be taught in schools. You have the right to believe what you want, just don't think I'll standby as you destroy our schools that affect my children and society while you do it.
Facts are facts. Again, you reject the data, not me. Is 1+1=2 a belief to you too?
It isn't bigotry to calls facts facts and myths myths. Is it bigoted to you if someone teaches 1+1=2? You are questioning the whole basis of factual teaching here. That is a very dangerous thing.
you really need to read your OP, for the ninth time I have said this, apparently you didn't even read the article you linked.
it said nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing nothing about making students learn religion. just that they cannot be funked 4 believing religion.
read your article for the first time because based on your clothes you know nothing of what it says
As I pointed out before, Creationism can be the only reason as simply disagreeing isn't what it's causing failing grades (otherwise everyone who ever offered an alternative hypothesis would fail).
Fascism is state control of quasi-private corporations in a 3rd Way economy. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Okay, then its nazism.
Forcing people to not believe something because you don't like it is nazism then.
Sorry, kid - why am I a disappointed academic? I am a trifle disappointed with Americans, but I never expected much.
It is about not penalizing them for spreading the myths like dinosaurs lived with humans in classes about biology (science/fact). That is a myth. I don't care if it is part of your religion- you can decide not to believe it, but when it comes up on a test you sure as hell better know that factually it is false. Just like you better know 1+1=2. I've read the article- my point stands.
It isn't religion! It is as simple as 1+1=2. These people and I guess you too are just on the wrong side of history. Just like the Church for many decades denied that Earth was not the center of the universe until it finally gave in, they will do that here too. Because the facts are there- they just choose to remain blind to them. Again there is EMPIRICAL proof. There is a large body of facts and evidence that supports evolution. IF that pool isn't large or rigorous enough for you, then you need to show factually or empirically what conflicts with it- but these people aren't doing that, they are pointing to a religious text instead. Well in that case if the rigor of the major data behind evolution is not enough, then what is enough? Why are you singling out evolution? Why not germ theory? Why not gravity? Etc. THAT is the point. The methodology on your end is inconsistent if you accept those other theories but reject evolution on the mere basis that your religious text says otherwise.
There is a certain way that we have historically come to decide what is and is not fact. Science probably has the greatest track record in terms of a systematic and accurate system to prove such fact. Evolution passes the rigor of the scientific method. Yet, it is being rejected here for no reason other than a religious text (which adheres to a much lower level of rigor, mind you) says so. So how are YOU or these people defining fact vs. opinion? This is a much deeper issue than you are making it out to be. You are questioning the whole way we decide something is fact and that is fine if only you had some valid reasons to back it up. Everything should not be treated as equal opinion; it just shouldn't. And if it were, what does that mean for schools?
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I suspect you are disappointed because it is all you have ever done. I know I would be if all I had ever done was, well, not much.Sorry, kid - why am I a disappointed academic? I am a trifle disappointed with Americans, but I never expected much.
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