Is Islam a Religion

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

RoccoR said:
Protectionist, et al,

This is but one definition and one interpretation of the definition.

(COMMENT)

Islam has a "Code of Ethics," several. It is just that the Islamic Ethics are not generally the same as Christian Ethics.

http://www.al-islam.org/a-code-of-ethics-for-muslim-men-and-women/

http://answering-islam.org/Nehls/Ask/ethics.html

While the Webster's New World College Dictionary is an excellent resource, it is a layman's level explanation of the word; an explanation at a glance. It is simplified. But it doesn't it gives an indepth insight.

The mistake is attempting to reconstruct a definition from a category definition. It is generally accepted that Islam is a religion.

While there may be millions of people that attempt to apply a thumbnail definition of "Religion" and work backwards to analyze "Islam;" it is a flawed concept.

Most Respectfully,
R

"Generally accepted" ? Is that so ? You haven't shown a shred of EVIDENCE to back that up. It could be that most (more than half) people in the world regard Islam as NOT a religion. Thus far, I haven't shown any more or less EVIDENCE to support that either.

I refute your assessment of the WNWCD. You can call it what you want (you've offered nothing to back that either). I say the WNWCD certainly IS an authoritative source of definition, and that will really be the day when we, in America, go by Muslim "ethics" (which are essentially NON-ethics) to govern our behavior.

This is all a bunch of poppycock. Islam has NO ETHICS. It is nothing but a criminal (under US law) ideology started by criminals in Asia Minor 14 centuries ago, and perpetuated by mass genocide, which has killed 270 million people around the globe, and forced many millions more into its ranks. It is probably the least ethical thing that has ever existed.

For people like all of you to come in here and say that things like wife-beating, genocide, rape, pedophilia, slavery, etc. should be accepted because one group accepts them is insanity. (OR you all are representitives of that group yourselves -wouldn't be the first time I was talking to Islamists in a computer forum).

It might also be noted that ALMOST ALL Muslims living today are descendants of NON-MUSLIM ANCESTORS who were killed or forced to become Muslims, centuries ago. Hell of a way for someone to think of himself as belonging to a group. Sheeeeeshh !!

tecoyah · Dec 30, 2012

It is very clear you have a major problem with Islam and Muslims in general...we get it. While you are certainly welcome to your opinion, it is getting rather unpleasant to see your hatred of it plastered all over this forum.

Allow me to be the first to agree with everything you have stated, will state, or might be thinking of stating. Now...is there some other topic you might want to discuss?

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

clax said:
Crime is only crime if it is against the law.

Morality is subjective absolutely, any code of ethics based on it is subjective.

Your personal comments really kind of hint at your inability to accept that.

Yeah, crime is crime if it's against the law. And in case you haven't noticed,
"Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." (Koran 8:12) and "make war on the infidels who dwell around you." (Koran 9:123), happens to be against the law (AKA CRIME).

And "beat them."(Koran 4:34) is a CRIME.

And "[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." (Koran 4:24) >> rape & slavery happen to be CRIMES. Get it ?

Your comments don't hint. They clearly show you have a distinct blind spot for both what is moral and what is legal. And long as people who think like you are running around, we'll be sure to keep our law enforcement efforts pumped to the max. The minute you step out of line and engage in any of these immoral crimes, we (the American people) will lock you up (for a long time).

tecoyah · Dec 30, 2012

It is very clear you have a major problem with Islam and Muslims in general...we get it. While you are certainly welcome to your opinion, it is getting rather unpleasant to see your hatred of it plastered all over this forum.

Allow me to be the first to agree with everything you have stated, will state, or might be thinking of stating. Now...is there some other topic you might want to discuss?

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

tecoyah said:
It is very clear you have a major problem with Islam and Muslims in general...we get it. While you are certainly welcome to your opinion, it is getting rather unpleasant to see your hatred of it plastered all over this forum.

Allow me to be the first to agree with everything you have stated, will state, or might be thinking of stating. Now...is there some other topic you might want to discuss?

I don't discuss things with people who are disingenuous. If you can show me that you have overcome that, and have become respectably honest, I'll engage in discussion with you THEN.

As for your inability to accept the TRUTH about Islamic penetration and sedition of American society (AKA as Islamization AKA stealth jihad), all I can say is > not my problem. If you read and research the subject (a lot), as I've done over the past 12 years, you'll arrive at all the same conclusions. Only difference between us is I've done the homework (in 25 books + thousands of their footnoted sources + website material), and you haven't, quite apparently.

And the reality of Islamization is indeed "unpleasant". But that's life. Lots of things are unpleasant. Crime, war, etc. Turning a blind eye and sweeping them under the rug only makes them worse.

As for "hatred", my hatred is of hatred (AKA Islam) and that movement which seeks to destroy American society, for its own ends.

Lastly, the ignorance of Islamization that I am seeing here in this forum, shows that it NEEDS a good deal of protectionist information "plastered all over this forum", to cure that. You're welcome.

tecoyah · Dec 30, 2012

It is very clear you have a major problem with Islam and Muslims in general...we get it. While you are certainly welcome to your opinion, it is getting rather unpleasant to see your hatred of it plastered all over this forum.

Allow me to be the first to agree with everything you have stated, will state, or might be thinking of stating. Now...is there some other topic you might want to discuss?

Please realize also...that we will ban for spamming.

Mermaid · Dec 30, 2012

tecoyah said:
It is very clear you have a major problem with Islam and Muslims in general...we get it. While you are certainly welcome to your opinion, it is getting rather unpleasant to see your hatred of it plastered all over this forum.

Allow me to be the first to agree with everything you have stated, will state, or might be thinking of stating. Now...is there some other topic you might want to discuss?

Please realize also...that we will ban for spamming.

:giggle:

clax · Dec 30, 2012

Protectionist said:
Yeah, crime is crime if it's against the law. And in case you haven't noticed,
"Strike off their heads, strike off the very tips of their fingers." (Koran 8:12) and "make war on the infidels who dwell around you." (Koran 9:123), happens to be against the law (AKA CRIME).

And "beat them."(Koran 4:34) is a CRIME.

And "[Forbidden to you are] married women, except those whom you own as slaves." (Koran 4:24) >> rape & slavery happen to be CRIMES. Get it ?

Your comments don't hint. They clearly show you have a distinct blind spot for both what is moral and what is legal. And long as people who think like you are running around, we'll be sure to keep our law enforcement efforts pumped to the max. The minute you step out of line and engage in any of these immoral crimes, we (the American people) will lock you up (for a long time).

I am not arguing with you any more, it is a religion by definition.

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

tecoyah said:
It is very clear you have a major problem with Islam and Muslims in general...we get it. While you are certainly welcome to your opinion, it is getting rather unpleasant to see your hatred of it plastered all over this forum.

Allow me to be the first to agree with everything you have stated, will state, or might be thinking of stating. Now...is there some other topic you might want to discuss?

Please realize also...that we will ban for spamming.

You mean like repeating a post that was already responded to, like you just did ? And do you also ban for verbal abuse like YOU've been engaging in ?
Just wondering. LOL.

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

clax said:
I am not arguing with you any more, it is a religion by definition.

I'm not arguing with you any more. It is a religion by some definitions, and not a religion by other definitions. If anyone has any EVIDENCE to show how many people (worldwide) consider Islam a religion, or not one, I'll examine that evidence (if/whenever it shows up here). So far, the only one who has posted anything related to that has been me.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...229be95c8561f6&bpcl=40096503&biw=1024&bih=601

chris7375 · Dec 30, 2012

Ok I am Christian and believe in Christ I believe not because of proof but because faith drives me to believe it is true.

I think the same holds true for Muslims. Who am I to say they are wrong? Though I have faith my version is the correct version so do they. That makes them faithful to their faith and I must admire that in them. Just like me they keep their faith in their beliefs.

I have read both the Koran and the Bible. The problem I find with people who quote our scripture and the Koran is that they quote a sentence but fail to quote the surrounding scripture before and after their entry. What I find is 9 times out of ten a person misrepresents what the scripture truly says. This happens with both the bible and the koran.

The have a right to their beliefs just as much as I do. If a muslim wants to talk religion I am more then willing to point out the flaws in their beliefs as they will try to do with mine. Why because faith drives us too. Though I will not say they are wrong for having faith.

An excellent book to read on this is The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. Is Islam a religion yes it is just as much as the Jewish and Christian religion.

clax · Dec 30, 2012

Protectionist said:
I'm not arguing with you any more. It is a religion by some definitions, and not a religion by other definitions. If anyone has any EVIDENCE to show how many people (worldwide) consider Islam a religion, or not one, I'll examine that evidence (if/whenever it shows up here). So far, the only one who has posted anything related to that has been me.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugex...229be95c8561f6&bpcl=40096503&biw=1024&bih=601

Everyone is wrong but you, loo give up you are right. I absolutely agree 100%.

tecoyah · Dec 30, 2012

Protectionist said:
You mean like repeating a post that was already responded to, like you just did ? And do you also ban for verbal abuse like YOU've been engaging in ?
Just wondering. LOL.

As a Moderator, I try to sway members toward productivity...sometimes by setting a hint in place. If however, you feel I have verbally abused you I will apologize for the slight. I would appreciate you pointing out these abuses that I do not do so again.

That said...the ice is beginning to crack under your feet, please proceed with caution.

clax · Dec 30, 2012

chris7375 said:
Ok I am Christian and believe in Christ I believe not because of proof but because faith drives me to believe it is true.

I think the same holds true for Muslims. Who am I to say they are wrong? Though I have faith my version is the correct version so do they. That makes them faithful to their faith and I must admire that in them. Just like me they keep their faith in their beliefs.

I have read both the Koran and the Bible. The problem I find with people who quote our scripture and the Koran is that they quote a sentence but fail to quote the surrounding scripture before and after their entry. What I find is 9 times out of ten a person misrepresents what the scripture truly says. This happens with both the bible and the koran.

The have a right to their beliefs just as much as I do. If a muslim wants to talk religion I am more then willing to point out the flaws in their beliefs as they will try to do with mine. Why because faith drives us too. Though I will not say they are wrong for having faith.

An excellent book to read on this is The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. Is Islam a religion yes it is just as much as the Jewish and Christian religion.

I wouldn't bother Chris.

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

tecoyah said:
As a Moderator, I try to sway members toward productivity...sometimes by setting a hint in place. If however, you feel I have verbally abused you I will apologize for the slight. I would appreciate you pointing out these abuses that I do not do so again.

That said...the ice is beginning to crack under your feet, please proceed with caution.

You should easily be able to see your instances of verbal abuse, and I suspect if you look over your last few posts you'll find them. As for the caution, why don't YOU proceed that way ?

chris7375 · Dec 30, 2012

clax said:
I wouldn't bother Chris.

I have too it is in my blood :giggle:

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

clax said:
I wouldn't bother Chris.

Clicked this in error.

Protectionist · Dec 30, 2012

chris7375 said:
Ok I am Christian and believe in Christ I believe not because of proof but because faith drives me to believe it is true.

I think the same holds true for Muslims. Who am I to say they are wrong? Though I have faith my version is the correct version so do they. That makes them faithful to their faith and I must admire that in them. Just like me they keep their faith in their beliefs.

I have read both the Koran and the Bible. The problem I find with people who quote our scripture and the Koran is that they quote a sentence but fail to quote the surrounding scripture before and after their entry. What I find is 9 times out of ten a person misrepresents what the scripture truly says. This happens with both the bible and the koran.

The have a right to their beliefs just as much as I do. If a muslim wants to talk religion I am more then willing to point out the flaws in their beliefs as they will try to do with mine. Why because faith drives us too. Though I will not say they are wrong for having faith.

An excellent book to read on this is The Reason for God by Timothy Keller. Is Islam a religion yes it is just as much as the Jewish and Christian religion.

You are an American citizen participating in American society with a US Constitution that proclaims itself supreme (Article 6. Section 2), and in upholding that (Supremacy Clause) you are someone able to say that Islam (or any other supremacist movement) is unconstitutional. THAT'S who you are.

You are also an American citizen who is bound by the laws of the USA (which numerous Islamic laws are in violation of), and you are one who has the right to expect others (Muslims and anyone else) to abide by those laws. If they don't, you have the right to call the police, and have them arrested. THAT'S who you are.

As for the very common "Out of Context" talking point you mentioned, I can only say that it does not matter if you read a sura by itself, or if you read the previous or next sura that comes after. In the Koran, suras are placed intermittently. Each one appears totally unrelated to the one before and after it. There generally IS NO CONTEXT, but nice try.

Example: Sura 4:34 endorses wife-beating. You can look at many translations. They are the same. There is no other translation. 4:33 and 4:35 are different subjects. 4:33 pertains to inheritance and 4:35 is about marriage arbitration. And ther eis nothing in 4:34 that nullifies a husband's "right" to beat his wife (the last 2 words of the sura).

Note: if you're going to try whitewashing Islam on me, be it known, I've been reading the Koran for 53 years, in 18 different translations of it.

myp · Dec 30, 2012

Protectionist. I'll tell you what, if you think you have such a strong case, why don't you try to get a case started that Islam is not a religion and does not deserve 1st amendment protection? If you think you have such a strong case, then surely it will be a compelling case. If you think you are so right on the Constitutional argument, then why don't you present it in front of the ultimate judges and those who actually have the power to do whatever it is you want to be done- the judicial system.

clax · Dec 30, 2012

myp said:
Protectionist. I'll tell you what, if you think you have such a strong case, why don't you try to get a case started that Islam is not a religion and does not deserve 1st amendment protection? If you think you have such a strong case, then surely it will be a compelling case. If you think you are so right on the Constitutional argument, then why don't you present it in front of the ultimate judges and those who actually have the power to do whatever it is you want to be done- the judicial system.

He can't because the Muslim brotherhood controls the courts.:giggle:

Is Islam a Religion

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