Trayvon Martin

clax · Nov 26, 2012

Hammer said:
.

Trayvon Martin also would have felt no regret if he left Zimmerman half dead, or dead. Trayvon wasn't pounding Zimmerman into the ground because he had to, but because he wanted to.

There isn't any place for psychic mind reading in the justice system.

That is what thus case comes down to, intent, very difficult to prove. Did Martin respond or attack, an old phrase that still holds true, dead men tell no tales.

Martin had a history of petty thuggery, not beating people to death, very big gap.

Hammer · Nov 26, 2012

Bill said:
Go read post #53. You really do have an issue with reading comprehension, don't you?

When you count, it goes like this 1, 2, 3, etc. I was responding to post #49, not the later #53, with my observation that you refuse to find fault with anything Martin did, even after I pointed out that you refuse to find fault with Martin.

And, when you finally do find a fault in something Martin did, it's with the ubber wimpy, "I don't believe that Martin was justified in attacking Zimmerman."

You didn't soften your statement about Zimmerman be prefixing your claim that he shouldn't gave gotten out of his car with "I don't believe..." You even repeated your assertion about Zimmerman in post #53 and still without "I don't believe..."

Can we at least get it on record that you believe Martin did assault Zimmerman (not the other way around)?

As for me, I can find countless things Martin did wrong. Wondering around the neighborhood at night in a hoodie, thug posturing to Zimmerman when he notices that Zimmerman is watching him, coming back to confront Zimmerman, etc. Then assaulting Zimmerman and continuing to beat him even when he's down.

Hammer · Nov 26, 2012

clax said:
There isn't any place for psychic mind reading in the justice system.

That is what thus case comes down to, intent, very difficult to prove. Did Martin respond or attack, an old phrase that still holds true, dead men tell no tales.

Martin had a history of petty thuggery, not beating people to death, very big gap.

Consider this:

A....B.................................C

A is where Zimmerman was parked.
C is where Martin was staying with his dad and some woman.
B is where Martin was before Zimmerman ended his call with the police.
B is ALSO where the shooting occurred, SEVERAL MINUTES LATER.

That's proof that Martin came back to confront Zimmerman. All other evidence is consistent with Martin confronting and attacking Zimmerman.

Martin attacked Zimmerman for no good reason and to continued to attack Zimmerman even after Zimmerman was on the ground. That's the actions of someone who wants to hurt someone. People who want to cause harm don't regret it. They might only regret the consequences (getting caught).

Martin wasn't just a petty thug, he fancied hardcore thuggery (judging by his social media). And, I fully expect that when his school records are released, they'll be very damning.

clax · Nov 26, 2012

Hammer said:
Consider this:

A....B.................................C

A is where Zimmerman was parked.
C is where Martin was staying with his dad and some woman.
B is where Martin was before Zimmerman ended his call with the police.
B is ALSO where the shooting occurred, SEVERAL MINUTES LATER.

That's proof that Martin came back to confront Zimmerman. All other evidence is consistent with Martin confronting and attacking Zimmerman.

Martin attacked Zimmerman for no good reason and to continued to attack Zimmerman even after Zimmerman was on the ground. That's the actions of someone who wants to hurt someone. People who want to cause harm don't regret it. They might only regret the consequences (getting caught).

Martin wasn't just a petty thug, he fancied hardcore thuggery (judging by his social media). And, I fully expect that when his school records are released, they'll be very damning.

Judging by media? You mean the ringling brothers act that offers credibility to people like al sharpton? A thug himself. I never take media seriously, it is hearsay. U.O.R. i will entertain.
Again you are reading minds, perhaps Martin just wanted to punch Zimmermann one last time. there is no way to know. Clearly Zimmermann did not commit murder, the question is what did Martin intend, was it just to relieve his frustration, or was he bent on killing Zimmermann, if you say he was, how do you know that?

Hammer · Nov 26, 2012

clax said:
Judging by media? You mean the ringling brothers act that offers credibility to people like al sharpton?

No, Martin's social media, e.g. Twitter and Facebook. On Twitter, Martin went by No_Limit_Nigga and about the time he was suspended from school, his brother tweeted him, "Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver". Maybe it'll come out that Martin's suspension was really for assaulting a bus driver. Maybe it's just a case of Martin trying to raise his thug status by telling people he assaulted a bus driver.

Again you are reading minds, perhaps Martin just wanted to punch Zimmermann one last time. there is no way to know.

No mind reading. Anyone pounding someone on the ground wants to hurt them. I just don't know if killing was the intent. But, it doesn't matter.

clax · Nov 26, 2012

Hammer said:
No, Martin's social media, e.g. Twitter and Facebook. On Twitter, Martin went by No_Limit_Nigga and about the time he was suspended from school, his brother tweeted him, "Yu ain't tell me yu swung on a bus driver". Maybe it'll come out that Martin's suspension was really for assaulting a bus driver. Maybe it's just a case of Martin trying to raise his thug status by telling people he assaulted a bus driver.

Maybe doesn't fly in court, and further more the boasting on social media? What teen doesn't do that?

Hammer said:
No mind reading. Anyone pounding someone on the ground wants to hurt them. I just don't know if killing was the intent. But, it doesn't matter.

Intent is all that matters, really precived.intent by Zimmermann, being that I was not present at the events any intent is subject to question. An unarmed boy against an armed man, there is a flaw here, if Zimmermann sustained injury that suggests he had reason to believe his lee was in jeopardy it may help his case.

ThirdTerm · Nov 26, 2012

Both Zimmerman and Martin are somewhat violent personalities and Martin obviously attacked Zimmerman first after he was followed by a suspicious man and a neighbourhood watch captain is only supposed to report suspicious activities to the police and Zimmerman was discouraged from pursuing the suspect by a police dispatcher he was in contact with and Zimmerman was not fit enough to fend off Martin's attack when Martin was on top of him and he ended up using deadly force on the spur of the moment. Zimmerman could be acquitted after a lengthy trial just like other high profile cases (i.e. Casey Anthony) because he had a right to defend himself regardless of the circumstances but he needs to be grilled in court.

clax · Nov 26, 2012

ThirdTerm said:
Both Zimmerman and Martin are somewhat violent personalities and Martin obviously attacked Zimmerman first after he was followed by a suspicious man and a neighbourhood watch captain is only supposed to report suspicious activities to the police and Zimmerman was discouraged from pursuing the suspect by a police dispatcher he was in contact with and Zimmerman was not fit enough to fend off Martin's attack when Martin was on top of him and he ended up using deadly force on the spur of the moment. Zimmerman could be acquitted after a lengthy trial just like other high profile cases (i.e. Casey Anthony) because he had a right to defend himself regardless of the circumstances but he needs to be grilled in court.

A police dispatcher at least in my jurisdiction doesn't hold any special legal status, they are just call center employees basically, they are given a script and told to answer phones, a 911 dispatcher saying cease chase is as valid as a Mastercard rep saying so.

He clearly was justified in defending himself, the question is, was it necessary to do do with deadly force.

Bill · Nov 27, 2012

Hammer said:
When you count, it goes like this 1, 2, 3, etc. I was responding to post #49, not the later #53, with my observation that you refuse to find fault with anything Martin did, even after I pointed out that you refuse to find fault with Martin.

Then pick another post, there are several from me in this thread which could be used. You continue to assign a viewpoint to me which I have not embraced and then you argue against it.

Even though you seem to be only interested in trolling I'll lay it out for you one more time:

1. Martin was not justified in attacking Zimmerman.
2. Zimmerman, while under no obligation to follow Martin, doesn't appear to have broken any laws by doing so and his intent in following does not appear to have been to murder Martin.
3. If Zimmerman had exercised just a little bit of common-sense and restraint then everyone would have gone home alive that night.

See how I counted? Pretty nifty, huh

Now take what I just said and try to turn that into racism and support for Martin. I have the utmost faith and confidence in your ability to convince yourself that what I just posted is somehow anti-white.

tecoyah · Nov 28, 2012

In my opinion, this is a very flawed law. "Stand your Ground" has become a way to commit Murder, and try to get away with it.
Case in Point:

"
According to authorities, 17-year-old Jordan Russell Davis, a black teenager, and several other friends were confronted by Dunn, a white man, who pulled alongside the teens' SUV in the parking lot of a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station. Dunn asked them to turn their music down, and after an exchange of words, he fired between 8 and 9 shots at the vehicle, several of which hit Davis, causing his death.
Dunn was arrested on Saturday and charged with murder and attempted murder, his lawyer said that her client acted "responsibly and in self defense."
During a telephone interview with ABC 12, Dunn’s daughter Rebecca defended her father, saying he did not intend to kill anyone and was responding to a threat.
"He got threatened and had to do what he had to do, and it's sad, so sad," Rebecca Dunn said. "A terrible tragedy on both sides. It really is. I don't know. What are you going to do in that situation? You don't know what you are going to do. He just reacted."
Dunn’s self defense claim falls under Florida’s "Stand Your Ground" law, which was the same claim used in the defense of George Zimmerman, the man accused of murdering 17-year-old Trayvon Martin earlier this year."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/loud-music-leads-to-murder_n_2200708.html

"
In 2008, Venegas and Oscar Quintero were working construction on the Collier County Courthouse project.

According to reports, the two were arguing for several days. Then on April 29, witnesses say Venegas stabbed Quintero.

As the case played out in court, Venegas' attorney Donald Day argued his client was defending himself after Quintero punched him.

In response to the Stand Your Ground ruling Day said: "It has been a long four year ride for Mr. Venegas. He was finally able to prove his innocence and we were very happy all the evidence came out showing he acted in self defense. It was unfortunate that there was a fatality, however, people do have he right to defend themselves."

http://www.winknews.com/Local-Flori...misses-charges-in-2008-stabbing-#.ULX1ZIaKLU0

When you can legally end someones life because they get pissed of at you...something is terribly wrong.

Bill · Nov 28, 2012

tecoyah said:
When you can legally end someones life because they get pissed of at you...something is terribly wrong.

Well said, +1

Hammer · Nov 28, 2012

clax said:
Maybe doesn't fly in court, and further more the boasting on social media? What teen doesn't do that?

The Defense, with the Court's support, needs Martin's school records and social media postings, as well as interview Martin's brother and classmates. They need to find out of the No Limit Nigga had a racist attitude or propensity to be violent or threaten violence against others.

The Prosecution will try to portray Martin as an angel while they attack Zimmerman's character.

Intent is all that matters, really precived.intent by Zimmermann, being that I was not present at the events any intent is subject to question. An unarmed boy against an armed man, there is a flaw here, if Zimmermann sustained injury that suggests he had reason to believe his lee was in jeopardy it may help his case.

You must be joking... calling a 17-year-old a boy? Martin was practically full grown and a decisively bigger man than Zimmerman. Martin was also at the age that people commit the most crimes.

The only point in calling Zimmerman armed and Martin unarmed is to imply that Zimmerman was the more dangerous of that two, and that is completely stupid. If Zimmerman wanted to harm Martin, he would have shot Martin before the fight. And, "unarmed" men assault and kill people every day.

Hammer · Nov 28, 2012

tecoyah said:
In my opinion, this is a very flawed law. "Stand your Ground" has become a way to commit Murder, and try to get away with it.
Case in Point:

.......

When you can legally end someones life because they get pissed of at you...something is terribly wrong.

You know those tiny-brained hateful hypocrites we call Liberals? They're generally opposed to the Stand Your Ground Law. And, they also generally think that Martin had a right to assault and potentially kill Zimmerman because Martin was pissed at Zimmerman.

As for the man who shot at the public nuisance friends of the black teenager for their loud music, he'll go to prison if his only defense is he was pissed. So, your attempt to use that example to discredit SYG laws is bullsh!t.

SYG laws require justifiable self-defense, short of retreating.

Bill · Nov 28, 2012

Hammer said:
The Defense, with the Court's support, needs Martin's school records and social media postings, as well as interview Martin's brother and classmates. They need to find out of the No Limit Nigga had a racist attitude or propensity to be violent or threaten violence against others.

The Prosecution will try to portray Martin as an angel while they attack Zimmerman's character.

You must be joking... calling a 17-year-old a boy? Martin was practically full grown and a decisively bigger man than Zimmerman. Martin was also at the age that people commit the most crimes.

The only point in calling Zimmerman armed and Martin unarmed is to imply that Zimmerman was the more dangerous of that two, and that is completely stupid. If Zimmerman wanted to harm Martin, he would have shot Martin before the fight. And, "unarmed" men assault and kill people every day.

Nothing you just said has any bearing on what happened that night, and as far as Zimmerman shooting Martin, well, he did. He shot Martin. I'm not blaming Zimmerman for this mess, but your defense of Zimmerman is piss poor.

Hammer · Nov 29, 2012

Bill said:
Nothing you just said has any bearing on what happened that night, and as far as Zimmerman shooting Martin, well, he did. He shot Martin. I'm not blaming Zimmerman for this mess, but your defense of Zimmerman is piss poor.

My defense of Zimmerman is piss poor? On the contrary, nothing I post is anything like your posts! That aside, why don't you call the Prosecution piss poor? Unless you live under a rock (something I suspect), you'd know the Prosecution has been working very hard to build a case by attacking Zimmerman's character. In fact, this will be their whole case.

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2012

It is unfortunate you begin your reply with insult....but so be it for now.( by the way I see Bills posts as anything but "piss poor")....however.

To my understanding the objective of the prosecutor is to defame an opponent in every way possible to sway the jury. It is certainly nothing new, and does not pertain to this issue in particular.

Instead it seems very clear you avoid any viable answer by asking questions to avert replying as most serious about debate do. The combination of childish insult and obvious attempts at diversion are far from new, but just as unattractive as they have been for years.

In short...either grow up and join the adult crowd, or leave before we need to remove you.

Hammer · Nov 29, 2012

tecoyah said:
To my understanding the objective of the prosecutor is to defame an opponent in every way possible to sway the jury. It is certainly nothing new, and does not pertain to this issue in particular.

You say it's the job of the prosecutor to defame the opponent to sway the jury, but then add that this doesn't apply in "this issue".

WHY NOT?

Do you ever take a break from sounding like a stupid bigot?

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2012

It does not apply to the argument you have created...though it certainly applies the the case. You however have pestered, insulted, and become so unpleasant that this thread now revolves around your attitude, rather than the subject intended.

I think everyone here understands your position by now, as you have spewed it in many ways, that say the same thing.

Okay, you are in defense of Zimmerman...accepted, as the case is complex. Others here question aspects of this situation based on Data they see as important.

You insult everyone who decides to debate you conclusions, others try to use rational and respectful commentary.

I hope you can see the issue here....because Trayvon has nothing to do with it.

Hammer · Nov 29, 2012

tecoyah said:
It does not apply to the argument you have created...though it certainly applies the the case. You however have pestered, insulted, and become so unpleasant that this thread now revolves around your attitude, rather than the subject intended.

Tecoyah, bigoted dolts like yourself choose to make this about "my attitude." My first post in this thread had nothing to with any user of this forum. And, it was a completely legitimate take on the Zimmmerman/Martin case as it applies to society. And, your first reply to me in this thread was to practically to call me a neonazi, rather than addressing the topic.

I hope you can see the issue here....because Trayvon has nothing to do with it.

Trayvon has nothing to do with what? His name is the topic.

tecoyah · Nov 29, 2012

Hammer said:
Tecoyah, bigoted dolts like yourself choose to make this about "my attitude." My first post in this thread had nothing to with any user of this forum. And, it was a completely legitimate take on the Zimmmerman/Martin case as it applies to society. And, your first reply to me in this thread was to practically to call me a neonazi, rather than addressing the topic.

Trayvon has nothing to do with what? His name is the topic.

I tried....

Trayvon Martin

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